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100% GMing
Treasure Tables is dedicated to game masters, offering GMing advice and ideas since 2005. I'm Martin Ralya, and I've been GMing since 1989 and writing for the RPG industry since 2004.
Treasure Tables is Unlikely to Continue (Updated Dec. 12)
Mon. December 10, 2007
From November 1st through yesterday, December 9th, I put Treasure Tables in rerun mode so that I could take part in National Novel Writing Month, and to give myself time to consider whether or not I wanted to continue running this site.
It wasn’t any easy decision (in fact, making it really sucked) but I’ve decided that I don’t want to continue running Treasure Tables.
Update Dec. 12: Thank you to everyone who has commented so far — it’s pretty amazing to see all of this support. I’m still mulling things over, but I wanted to let you know that it looks almost certain that the forums will being staying in business. As for the blog, I don’t want to rush into anything — I’ll keep you posted!
The clincher was when I realized that in the past 39 days of reruns, while I’ve missed interacting with the TT community, reading your comments on blog posts and spending time on the forums, I never once missed writing my daily post.
To put it another way, I missed having a blog with a great community of readers and participants, but I didn’t miss writing or running that blog. That seems like a pretty clear sign that it’s time for a long break, if not a permanent one.
So why did I title this post “Treasure Tables is Unlikely to Continue”? Because I’m open to the idea that there’s a balance to be struck that I haven’t thought of or considered — one that will let me recover the fun I had writing posts here — and make me want to continue.
I’m not asking to be talked out of my decision, or showered with recognition or pity and inspired to keep going, but this is and always has been a community; if you’ll miss TT and think you might have a solution for me, I’m happy to hear it. I make no promises.
Over the past month, TT members have emailed with a number of good ideas, and I’ve thought of a few on my own. Here’s the list so far, in no particular order:
- Cut back my posting schedule from seven days a week to five (weekends off) or even three (M-W-F, perhaps).
- Make TT a group blog, and invite guest bloggers to become regular contributors.
- Charge a subscription fee to offset the time I put into the site.
- Sell TT to someone else, and let them run it.
- Merge TT with another RPG site, sharing the workload.
- Close everything but the forums and wiki, and ask volunteers to run those parts of the site.
- Create a network of GMing blogs with TT at the hub, posting infrequently but highlighting great content on the network.
I see the merit in all of those ideas — and thank you to everyone who wrote to me with suggestions. The simple fact that there are several people willing to join in as regular contributors, or otherwise give freely of their time to keep TT alive, is incredibly gratifying. Ultimately, though, nothing I’ve thought of or heard so far overcomes three basic problems: burnout, progress so far and my impending lack of mental real estate for running TT.
Burnout’s pretty straightforward. Posting daily for over two years did me in; it’s not nearly as fun as it used to be, even though I think my posts have gotten better overall. (And again, that lack of fun has nothing to do with you — it has to do solely with writing a new post every day feeling more like an obligation and less like a fun.)
Progress so far is a matter of perspective, but when I switched to Java-based stats (apparently much more accurate than the logfile-based stats I was using before) in September, I found that instead of 2,000+ daily visitors, TT receives more like 800-1,000 visitors. For two years of daily blog posts, that’s not nearly enough. I’m not great at marketing (nor do I particularly enjoy it), so the prospective of going back to serious readership-building doesn’t sound terribly attractive.
The third one — mental real estate — requires some explanation. During NaNoWriMo, I spent about 30 hours on my novel — roughly an hour a night. Finding an hour a night wasn’t a problem, but fitting anything but my novel into my head would have been; there’s no way I could have written TT posts at the same time.
Flip that around, and I know I couldn’t maintain anything close to a daily posting schedule, or to the 6-8 hours a week it takes to write and run TT, while revising my novel in the coming months. Writing that first draft was one of the best things I’ve ever done, and I’ve wanted to be a writer since I was a kid. If I have to choose between novel-writing and blogging, it’s going to be novel-writing.
There are other factors too, which I’ll be happy to get into if anyone is interested, but this is already a long post. At the end of the day, this is the most important stuff.
I wouldn’t feel right saying goodbye to a community of GMs who have given me so much over the past two years without giving that same community — you — a chance to weigh in. If you’ve got an idea for sustaining TT, even one that’s been mentioned above, I’d love to hear it.
This will be the only post here this week, to give everyone who is interested in weighing in, or in commenting on TT’s almost certain closure, a chance to do just that.
Two last things (really, I promise!). First, I hate it when sites close down and simply disappear. TT’s RSS feed crossed the 1,000-subscriber mark for the first time during rerun month — there’s a ton of useful material here, even with no new stuff, and it won’t be disappearing from the web anytime soon. I might publish it down the road, in which case it could go away, but for the next few months at least you have nothing to worry about on that front.
Second and much more importantly, thank you for supporting Treasure Tables. This site is what it is because of you, the community of GMs that make it awesome.
Thank you for listening.
More posts about: TT Info and News
Comments
92 Responses to “Treasure Tables is Unlikely to Continue (Updated Dec. 12)”
Martin,
I am pressed for time, but wanted to drop a short note.
First, ¡Felicidades! Congratulations on NaNo! It is wonderful to hear that the experience was so rewarding for you and that you aspire to continue working on your novel. Pursue that dream.
Also, I want to say that I understand your feeling of the posts becoming work. I think you are correct to walk away from it when you feel the need. Consider, however, that one (or even two or three) month(s) away may not be long enough to establish whether or not, in the long run, you will miss posting.
My suggestion for a ‘bottom line’ position is this: stop posting and keep the forum and wiki going. This will allow you to get back into the blog in the future if you want to. It also allows you to pursue any other plan at any point in the future.
Obviously, there are many tacks you might pursue short of that one. Many of them I would wholeheartedly support. However, as I said…I am pressed for time and must go. Hopefully, more discussion later!
Again, congratulations Martin on NaNo.
Later.
Ramza
Martin,
I have talked to you about this, and I fully understand the feelings of Burnout and the lack of Mental Real Estate. I have a few thoughts, but before I get into them, I just want to say that TT has been my favorite blog for the past two years. Your articles have been an inspiration to many of us. This site was the inspiration for me to really dedicate myself to my own blog.
TT has become more than a blog, it has become a community. I loved, at this year’s GenCon, getting together with other TT members at the Ram for a drink. It was great to sit and talk with people whom I had come to know through their Avatars and posts.
That said, if you no longer can write for TT, I would like to see the community continue. Sure there are other gaming blogs and forums, but I have not found a community that has had the level of maturity as well as the quality of posts as this group has.
I would be willing to donate time to help keep this community alive, by either moderating or writing. I think that this community has many great ideas that can be shared among ourselves as well as others.
I would suggest that if you do not want to write anymore, to make this part of the site a living archive of your past articles, and possibly accept new submissions or just link to other Blogs you enjoy reading. Keep the wiki and the Message Boards running and allow the community assist in the moderation of them. If donations are required to finance the cost of the hosting of the site, I know that I would have no problem contributing to them.
Also, would you consider putting the articles from the site into a single PDF, and selling it. I would be willing to buy such a PDF.
No matter what you choose, it has been a pleasure reading this site for the past two years, as well as sitting next to you on the Mastering Your GM-Fu panel the past two years.
You will definitely be missed. Whatever your final decision, this blog has helped me become a better GM and has been a consistently interesting read.
Good luck with your novel!
It’s your blog and your decision. Obviously I’ll miss seeing new posts pop up from TT on my RSS reader, but I’m glad to know the NaNoWriMo experience was so fulfilling for you. I have no advice except to do what YOU think is best, not anybody else. Cheers!
I have to say, I eagerly awaited the coming of today. Not just because it’s my birthday, but because we would get more original Treasure Tables posts. I’ll be sad to see it go. I’m an RSS reader, and an infrequent commenter. I did look at, and even edit the wiki in a few places. I don’t really get time to play RPGs any more, so reading about them, and thinking about what I could be designing is my substitue.
With all of that said, I understand burnout. I understand the commitment of a writer to his writing, and the focus that’s needed to do what you want to do.
My suggestion is to leave the blog there, and just don’t worry about commitment. With the wiki and the forums open, the community can get by. If and when you get the feeling to comment on a bit of RPG news, or share a bit of worldbuilding advice(and novels involve plenty of worldbuilding, too), come by and post it.
In my experience, it’s the feeling of obligation that results in burnout. You start doing it for fun, and then a day comes when it’s not fun. You press forward, feeling the obligation, and it creates resentment. You’ve created a new job for yourself, and you’re not even getting paid. Drop out, come back when it’s fun again, and don’t ever worry about posting when it’s too much like work. Note I didn’t say, ‘too much effort’. You can put a lot of effort into a post and still enjoy it.
Anyway, whatever you decide to do, Thanks. Thank you for all the advice, the ideas, and the oppurtunity to be a part of your discussion, however small a part I am.
Martin,
Whatever your decision, I want you to know that you have helped me become a better GM and that you’ve helped me understand this hobby so much more. I’m really glad for the work you’ve done here, and I hope that you will find some happy medium that lets you find some peace of mind.
I will continue to support TT in whatever format it continues in, and I encourage you to do what is right for yourself.
That having been said, let me suggest a concept that I haven’t seen mentioned yet. Instead of having a daily post, or a M-F post, or a M-W-F post, or any other set schedule, please consider posting when the inspiration and the mood strike you. Having that daily grind is a real brain killer, I know. You get done with your latest update and find you are already dreading having to do the next one, even if it isn’t due for two days. Instead of two days off, you’ve got two days of nagging worries.
So I would just throw out the idea of posting as you feel the urge, without a set schedule. If you continue to keep the wiki and the forums open, your visitors will still be here for you.
In any event, thanks again for your time and dedication! Good luck with whatever you decide!
Don’t trust the Java-stats, my friend. Most computer-literate surfers block them. I – for example – never show up on anything but your logs. I don’t download the pictures, have no java installed, turned cookies of and don’t use javascript. I’m also visiting your site via a TOR link. This computer is at work, and I don’t like anybody looking over my shoulder. this paranoid behaviour of mine makes all kind of statistic unreliable. The only traces I leave are the GET-Requests in your server logs.
OTH, I would expect that only 20% of your readers subscribe to your feed. Having so many feed readers is really great.
I would advise you to post only if you feel like it. The subscribers won’t mind and you lack the pressure to find a new topic every day. Make it fun for you again by only posting if you want to!
There are many people, myself included, who would happily take over the site for you, either as a single entity or a collective group managing the wiki, forums, and blog.
If you do go, we will all certainly miss you when your gone.
No matter which way you decide to go with this, thanks for the all the good content.
Martin,
This is exactly what happened to Eric Noah of EN World. After running the site for a few years, he got burned out. He transferred ownership to Morrus, who took over daily operations. Morrus expanded the news operations to include other submitters, since by then the task was too large for one person to handle. Eric is an active member of the site and still contributes when he chooses to. I’d say that worked out pretty good.
I’d love to see TT continue. I don’t think there’s a better resource for GMs out there. I’m in favor of making it a group blog, or possibly a hub. There’s already a big list of TT member blogs in the forum, so I think there’s some material to choose from.
Regardless of how it turns out, thanks for all the hard work you put into TT. It is appreciated.
One of the main reasons that I have liked Treasure Tables over the years is the style of GMing that it emphasizes. It is a lot more open and deep than a lot of GMing that I have seen done over my years of gaming. Treasure Tables is also a well done, professionally run site. Moreso than a lot of other similar sites that have sprung up around, before, or after it, treasure tables has never been plagued by the “I’m on the internet, look at me!” feel I get from a lot of other sites. It has always been more than someones blog that talks about gaming. That is why I have always liked it and what I’ll miss most.
I think TT can go on. Pretty easily too.
I think Martin should still be the head of the site.
I think Martin should still write the posts.
One benefit that TT has is that there is a huge backlog of old GMing material that doesn’t need rehashed. Just brought back to peoples attention. Maybe a format like:
M- Old post with comments open.
T- New Post/Guest Post
W- Old Post with comments open.
T – New Post/Guest Post
F – GMING LINK ROUNDUP/Product Review/Guest Post
S – Off
S – Off
would preserve some of what makes TT great, while keeping new blood flowing. I love the forums and the reset of the community, but I think the central pillar is still the blog.
I hope TT keeps going in some fashion, and I definitely hope Martin is still at the core of it.
I think people would prefer it if you kept the blog – even if you only posted once a week, or even once a month. Maybe a combination of this and guest bloggers would be the way forward…
Whatever you choose to do, whatever formula you use or whether you become filthy rich writing that next Great American Novel, know that we appreciate what you created and maintained these last 2 years.
While I’m still in the building stages of my own thing, I took lessons from your experience and I am thankful that you pioneered the genre I am currently contributing to.
Why not take a step back from practical tips and sharpen those writters skills with campaign logs and GM notes on said logs?
I’m having a lot of fun with my current Adventure prep/player log/DM log formula. It doesn’t bring in a ton of comments but I know thay are read.
Good luck whichever path you take Martin.
Martin,
As the former owner/maintainer of the now-defunct FlatEarth.com, I certainly know where you are coming from. I closed the door on my site for similar personal reasons, but also because I did not have a community willing to help out with maintenance. Sure, I had a few willing to pitch in, but not enough. The quality of the forum posts and members had deteriorated, and I could not keep up with moderating and keeping the software running smoothly.
That is not the case here. I think it would be a shame to disband TT and this great community while the quality is still high. I believe that you, like myself, would have regrets about closing your site after you have had a chance to recover. Once the site closes and the members are scattered to the winds, you can not get it back again. I would recommend that you let your community volunteers shoulder the burden for a while, allow guest posts, and consider a limited return after you have had a chance to decompress.
Just my two cents, from someone who has been there.
Hey man,
I know well the hardships and toils of running a community site like this, even though I don’t regiment myself to daily activity like you do. I’ve even thought of a lot of the same things you have thought of on retiring, in terms of the CBG. Of the options you listed above, I think a combination of:
# Cut back my posting schedule from seven days a week to three (M-W-F, perhaps).
# Make TT a group blog, and invite guest bloggers to become regular contributors.
Would be a GREAT idea. Perhaps if you posted on MWF, and had group contributors fill in the other four days a week, and even possibly considered working with some other sites – I know a few who would probably be up for the work.
Anyway Martin, you always know where to find me if you want to talk about some ideas, and if there’s anything I can do to help, let me know.
-Ish
I had thought it was pretty obvious from your comments before this month that this was the forgone conclusion, but I hoped if I burried my head in the sand and pretended I was being paranoid, the issue would go away. :p
While I really enjoy the site, I can’t justify forcing you (not that we could regardless) to keep going. On the other hand, like others, I would hate to see this excellent resource come to a stop. For now, I’d suggest keeping up the re-runs and/or guest posts until you make the final decision on how to continue/gracefully end the site, perhaps through some topic discussion on the forums?
I’d like to take the opportunity to thank you, Martin, for all that you have taught me as a DM. Thank you for helping me learn and grow. Thank you for inspiring me. Thank you for giving me a spark of joy every morning. I am going to miss reading your work.
Something like scoop, could be a cool option:
http://scoop.kuro5hin.org/special/whatisit
You could still blog whenever you want, but it could become a neat community-driven site. I haven’t seen anything that runs like that for RPGs, just lots of blogs. This could fill a unique void, letting all those who have something to say about gaming, say it, without having to set up a blog themselves.
I just found your site last week. Because google reader has a new feature of recommending blogs to its users. It noticed that most of my emails are about RP and recommended your blog. I think that new feature will draw more people to this site, and I would love it if you had guest posters, or still posted once a week. I wouldn’t mind if I only got to see articles of this high quality once a week. This is one of the best written blogs I have ever seen.
Martin,
I like all the options except the subscription fee.
But not all of them solve your problem. Ultimately you’re going to have to decide what’s best for you. I’ve known plenty of people who have gone into blog-burnout before, and generally, they just want to leave it behind entirely. But as you know, there are lots of skilled writer/DMs (multiclassed) out there who are willing to help.
Personally, the idea of TT becoming a hub for other DMing sites (while maintaining its own wiki and forum) is my favorite idea, but that’s mainly because it fits into what I already wanted to do.
I’d like to hear more about your process for guest posts. In the past, you’ve mentioned that guest posts take as musch effort to put up as normal posts because of reformating and voice demands. How does that impact the ability to extend the site via guest posts?
During re-run month I was a little disappointed because the original suggestion for re-runs was “toss a paragraph in the beginging saying why you chose to re-run this article or what you think of it today or whatever.” Given the time demand you had at that point, that you didn’t was perfectly understandable. However, I think there’s plenty of room for that sort of thing both by you and by those of us who’re reading the blog. (I know there’s a few posts I could probably go on about for a while saying “This is how this post really helped me!” or “Remember what I said in the comments of this post? I was all wrong and here’s how I learned it:”
I’d have to agree with Dave’s thoughts above. While I love the site and would do a lot to support it, I’m hesitant to pay subscription fees for -anything- and have left multiple services simply because of their subscription system.
I also think the blog-hub idea is the best one, though again, I have my own biases here.
Martin:
You owe us nothing; the community owes you a great deal. Thank you for creating and running such an amazing site for DMs.
I returned to DMing one year ago this week, and TreasureTables has been with me every step of the way. For the guidance and inspiration I have received here, I can’t thank you and those who participate in the community nearly enough, and my players don’t even know how much thanks they owe to this site. I’m sure it’s the same for other readers.
If I could just add a few comments to those above…
1. If you open the blog to group posting (which I hope you do), pick a few of your favorite contributors and ask them directly…and soon.
2. If you somehow decide to continue posting yourself, DON’T set a schedule; post when the mood strikes. That lends to higher-quality posts, and it keeps the non-RSSers coming back to the site on a daily basis to see if there’s something new.
3. If you feel that your only choice to keep TreasureTables running is to charge for membership, then go ahead and just close it. While I and a handful of others would pay, I can tell you from experience that you will not get the number of subscribers you need, and the community will fall apart as a result.
Thanks again, Martin, for all that you’ve done for the DMing community. Whatever your decision regarding TreasureTables, I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart.
Peace,
Ully
I completely understand burnout. You have had a heavy workload the two years you have operated. Whatever your decision regardint TT, know that you have made one of the most professional GMing sites it has been my pleasure to visit. I would love to see the site continue, but it is ultimately up to you.
Good luck with whatever you do, and thank you for this impressive resource.
Martin – There’s a mistake on the blog post; your April 1 post somehow got posted today…
Seriously (and this is pretty serious)…
First off, a huge ‘thank you’ for herding these cats for two years. This is by far the best RPG community I’ve seen on the web; the readers (and especially the players in their games) owe you a heapin’ helpin’ of gratitude. Your incisive posts and management of the forum have been excellent.
Second, regardless of what else happens, consider this a request to please keep the forums, blog archives, and GMing wiki online. I’m sure a number of members would gladly donate towards bandwidth and storage costs, and a few would help with administering the site.
Third, I strongly second the “post when you want to” idea given above. If it boils down to posts once a quarter, guest posts once a month, and occasional link-posts, then so be it. I don’t know about the rest of the crew, but I showed up for the blog, and stayed for the forums.
Finally, best of luck in your writing and any future endeavors. It was fun meeting y’all at GenCon, and I hope to do so again.
Kurt Schneider (”Telas”)
Wha? Man! I literally found this site last week and was excited to see what new posts looked like (I imagine a lot like old posts, but you know what I mean). Sad to hear this, but I understand what burn out is like. Thanks for making sure the site will be up for the next few months at least. Time for me to peruse the archives some.
Martin,
Consider a compromise, please. Just look at the posts and tell the community that you are willing to go forward with Option X, but the community needs to provide the following, Y. Honestly, any site can go forward with the community and without daily creator input. But I’m sure that guests could provide a year’s worth of posts from what is already in their GM notes somewhere now.
Either way, I support your decision and wish you the best of luck.
James
I decided to post this anonymously, to evade any harassment that may come from my comments.
I have been checking on TT for about 6 months or so, my post count isn’t very impressive (around 30) but I did take the time to read most of the PDF’s and most of the threads on the forum. Add to it the fact that I did “try” to participate on the forum (as my post count shows).
Well, this is my frank assessment of TT.
On the blog part of it, I think maybe 75% of all articles were so devoid of any information that I was impressed you didn’t feel embarrassed posting them. Your burnout has been showing itself for a long time, and maybe out of some unreal loyalty to the readers you felt like you should keep posting, even if most of it was substandard.
On the forum, things aren’t much better, I have noticed that there are maybe half a dozen regulars that literally spam the forum with useless threads. A lot of the threads were big ego trips, some of it had to do with people whining about their GM’s or players, while the good stuff was few and far between. I sincerely hope you decide to close the forum, it embarrasses me that people that don’t know what a GM is, will end up reading some of that crap and think that all of us are like those morons.
On the forum subject still, I have tried to actually posted some content (maps and programs) and either got no comment on them, or got some retarded crap being said in there. In one the threads, I was actually harassed by one the “regulars.” It was at that time that I decided to cut my participation on the forum, and not waste my time, since I was never going to suck up, or just plain suck as those people.
As for selling your site, with the tiny readership you have, I doubt you will be able to get anything for it. I wouldn’t waste my time.
Overall, I fell sad for you, seeing that you woke up after these past weeks to find out that this entire site was a big waste of effort. The best I can tell you is, cut it lose and move on.
I will provide one piece of experience: Monday through Friday is far, far easier than seven days a week. I avoid a lot of burnout by simply being able to wake up or go to sleep two days a week and know I don’t have to do anything with the site, not even respond to comments. I imagine the difference is slightly more marked with a M-W-F update schedule.
Martin,
There is nothing else to say other than thank you.
If you are interested, I’d be willing to buy TT from you. Send me an email with a proposed price and we’ll work it out from there if possible. I don’t want to see this site fade away.
Congrats on your novel! I look forward to reading it!
VV_GM
I enjoy your blog and think you should keep it and post to it only when you feel the urge and have something you want to say which could be often or maybe never. Quality over quantity. I’m sure you have had your reasons for the “every day” or MWF deadlines as a gamer, writer or as Martin, but as a faithful reader, I’m frankly only interested in reading things that you really want me to hear, not things that you felt you had to come up with to fill a slot — and sometimes it was clear you were just writing for writing’s sake. Those posts only serve to dilute some of the great posts you’ve written, and I’m sure you still have worthwhile things to say so I hope I get a chance to hear them. You’ve created a great GMing community here. Thanks!
I’ve been a relative newcomer to this site, but I’ve found the information here to be extremely invaluable to my growth as a GM. I would hate to see you shutdown this site, but I can relate.
Now, having said that I would perfectly happy to have this site be more of an occasional update. You don’t have to do daily posts, but you could do weekly or even bi-weekly posts. The other option you mentioned was to have a group blog. I think this would be a great idea as there are lots of other great GMs out there who can share their wisdom and experience.
Bottom line, you have to do what’s best for you, but I hope you decide to keep TT open in some capacity, even if it’s only a bi-weekly blog post.
Hey Martin-
Can’t you just spend a benny to re-roll your Spirit?
I’ve enjoyed reading your blogs past and present, and the topics and questions you’ve put forth have helped me to actually think more about my games and what I put into them. So thanks for that.
I’m with the “post when you get the urge and use guest bloggers” camp. I’ve suffered GM burnout a few times, and the biggest factor was that I was simply tired of the commitment to entertain people anywhere from four to eight hours every week. So I’d put it down for a while, but eventually I’d get an idea or a new system and suddenly everything was fresh again. I’d hate to see you shut everything down, only to get bitten by the bug again a few months (or even years) later, and end up starting again from scratch.
Even if you decide to shut down the blog, I’d hope that the TT forum would remain open. I really have no idea how much work it takes to keep a forum or wiki running smoothly, so this may be much more work than you’re willing to take on. But if you don’t want to do it, use the community you’ve helped build to help you out. You’ve had several offers to help, and even an outright offer to buy the site. Don’t think that you need to support the world on your shoulders, and don’t let this site become your Precious.
I too join my voice to the DM hub project…
But then again, Dave, Omnious and myself are all 2nd (3rd?) Generation GM (or at least game) bloggers so the bias is self evident.
As with most of the other posters, I’d like to thank you for this site. It’s been a great amount of help to me; made me think about a large number of things I didn’t really think about before while GMing, and that’s an awesome gift.
I would also like the forums and blog archives to remain open, possibly allowing a group of dedicated posters to take over the blog, and I would of course love to see your insight when and if it comes. If you can’t bring yourself to post: Don’t. If you feel you can only post once a week, or once a month, or (god forbid) once a year, do what you can and nobody will think less of you for it. I don’t want this site in its entirety to close, as it has been an important resource for me.
Thanks again,
Dylan (psychoticbarber)
Martin,
I just wanted to echo the sentiments that have already been written. If my vote counts for anything, I think the post-when-you-feel-inspired plan is probably the best idea — if it’s not too much of an administrative hassle, that is.
Thanks for a fantastic GM’ing resource, and good luck in whatever you do in the future!
- Ron
Martin – Whatever happens, thanks for your time & effort in running the site. You only have to look at the sentiments expressed in the comments above, and the number and rapidity of the responses, to see what a great community you have created. We’d all be very sad to see it go.
While I wouldn’t mind paying a subscription for access, I don’t think that’s necessarily the best for the community, either in terms of inclusivity for current members or for expanding the community in the future. I’d be happy to help with moderating or writing, and I’m sure there’s plenty of us who are in a similar situation. Guest posts also feels like a nice evolutionary step, if you can handle to share your baby, as the forum has produced some really regular contributors.
The hub idea sounds good, too, although I can see that turning into just as much work to maintain.
So, thanks, whatever you decide, and I wish you the courage to work out a way forward.
Aww, this is a shame. I love your site because you give real, substantial advice, not a bunch of useless platitudes. Also, as someone with an unhealthy attraction to office supplies, I’m always looking forward to the next time you review a product or find a new use for index cards or whatever.
If I may put in my 2 cents, do not go for the subscription idea. Not because then I’d have to pay (because I’d definitely be willing), but because the feeling of obligation will be overwhelming. It sounds like you’re genuinely not motivated, and throwing money at the problem isn’t going to change that. If this were up to a vote, I would go with the group blog idea, with you personally choosing the writers, and with you writing in once in a while if you have a spark of inspiration.
Whatever happens, thanks for all the memories, and best of luck with wherever life takes you.
I add my heartfelt thanks to you, Martin, for Treasure Tables. As many others have said, the advice here has helped me become (I think) a much better GM, making the games I run (and play in!) more fun for everyone.
I hope you find the time and incentive to continue posting, even if irregularly. You write well, and your thoughts are clear and concise. But if you just can’t manage the burnout, I can understand that.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
Martin,
I’m sorry to see TT go, but I completely understand where you’re coming from.
I’m glad you’re in touch enough with yourself and what you want to know when it’s not fun anymore – because after that point continuing is no fun for anyone. I hope you decide to keep writing about DMing in one form or another (I’m personally digging this “hub” idea), because even burnt-out you still rock.
Whatever way you decide to go, thanks for being the best damn DMing site on the net, and I’ll still come back to read what you have to say even if it’s once every six months.
I only post once every few days, perhaps two to three times a week. If I find myself with extra ideas, I find that Wordpress’ ability to delay a post’s publication by dating it in the future comes in handy.
Martin,
I appreciate you doing it and I really genuinely think that reading it over the last two years has made me a better Gm i use lots of your articles when i (occasionally) GM.
I wont make any silly or unrealistic promise like I’ld help out with a communal blog, i love the articles you write and hope they stay available somehow though.
I support you finding a way to make it less of a tax on you and more fun. I hope that I can read your novel
Stephan
Thank you for everything you have given us these past two years. Your site has been an amazing link for me into the DMing community in a way no other site emulates. If you do decide to close up shop, know that you will be missed.
Of all your suggestions, I think the best two are a lighter posting schedule (M-W-F sounds good) and guest posts. Both I think would help reduce your work load, and help keep our community alive. It is tough decision. Good luck.
I don’t peruse TT that often for a number of reasons but made it a point to stop by today to see what your “final decision” was.
Ultimately I’m not surprised as you’ve shown signs of “TT fatigue” for sometime and we’ve discussed potential ways to overcome that. But, at the end of the day, you have to do what feels right and it sounds like in the past month you haven’t missed that oppressive feeling of having to write yet another post. I’ve been there myself and know how you feel.
You should certainly do what you enjoy and at the end of the day makes you feel complete. Personally, I think writing the novel and crushing the word count was an amazing achievement that validates your decision. I’m quite proud of you for that.
Whatever the ultimate decision, you’ll certainly be supported by your friends.
Martin,
I’d be sorry to see TT go.
If turning it into a group blog would be less work for you, I’d say you should go with that… and keep the forums and wiki around as long as is feasible.
I’d be happy to help out, if there is anything I can do…
Martin, thanks a lot for your great thoughts concerning GMing over the years. I can imagine the not-fun pressure of having to come up with a post for everyday, and with the more rewarding novel-writing now blossoming, I totally understand your decision. Just sorry to see a great site go.
Good luck with finishing your novel, and make sure to spam our e-mail addresses when you get it published! Wouldn’t want to miss it.
All the best,
Richard
I’m only a recent reader and subscriber (last 6 months), but I’ve found your articles to be well written, full of insight and obviously backed by lots of experience and passion.
As a GM, first and foremost I want my players to have a good time and improving as a GM by reading your site was probably one of the best things I’ve done in this regard.
I’ve also passed links to articles from your site on to 2 brand new GMs because of the quality of your work. They’ve taken these ideas to heart and straight out of the gate, been better GMs than you would ever have expected because of it.
Hopefully you do continue writing, even if on a far more sporadic schedule, because your site is a great asset to the roleplaying community — for both players and GMs.
I’ve really enjoyed this site. I’d hate to see it disappear – this is where I found the group I play with now, and it was a big part of getting me back in the DM’s chair – but if you’ve had enough, I certainly understand.
Thanks for everything!
I sorry to see you go.
I just found you at the beginning of your hiatus. I’ve enjoyed the reposts immensely and will be searching the archives for the treasures held there.
I truly understand your position. I really have to give it up for bloggers, especially daily writers. I can’t even write for an audience of, myself and my journal. But you have to make a living and more importantly follow your dream. It’s now a goal, don’t lose sight of it.
I wish you the best, great success, and the top of NY Times bestseller list.
Maybe you could post about your book for a bit?
I’m not a role-model for one who wants to run a daily blog, but in my own ventures I came to a very important conclusion.
I could tell by some of your posts that you where feeling a little “burnt out”. It happens to the best of us.
What you will find out, if you stop completely, a month from now you will get a GREAT idea for an article and realize you don’t have an outlet for it anymore.
You should only ever blog when you have something to say. A Post A Day has grown tiresome on the blogosphere, let alone on the bloggers. Hopefully you’ll have something to say every week, but even if you don’t, that’s fine! You are an amazing designer and GM, Martin, and even if you put quality into posting only 1ce a month, it will be awesome.
Something else you could do is co-author Treasure Tables with others. Gather a group of friends together and others you know churn out well-written advice that love to write and you have yourself a surviving site!
Just some things I’ve picked up – I’m not trying to push the issue.
Regardless, thank you for all of the insightful articles you have written over the past 2 years. Remember, though – if you are not having fun, there is a good chance it is not worth doing.
Hey, man, I just want to say thank you for everything and best of luck in whatever you decide!
Damn. I feel guilty for lurking so much, and failing to tell you what a great job you’ve done with TT.
I’d love to see you continue TT, but if you’re burnt out, then it’ll do little good to push the issue. In the end, I think, you’ll not only find novel-writing more rewarding, but you’ll put your considerable talents to better use—wider audience and all that.
Best of luck with it, and make sure you give us all a heads-up when you’re published. I don’t think I’m alone in saying that I’d buy a Martin Ralya novel, sight unseen.
Regarding TT itself, though, I agree wholeheartedly with what DNAPhil and John Arcadian have to say. In addition, however:
I’d be willing to subscribe for as modest fee, so long as the quality remained high. Unfortunately, though, whilst subscription might go some way to defraying the financial cost of operating TT, it wouldn’t do much to address your burnout. It may even exacerbate it; you could feel even more obliged to post content than you do already.
Were you to merge with, say, Roleplaying Tips and/or Dungeon Mastering, I’d be a very happy man—all the best GMing resources in the one spot—but that’s something I’m sure you’ll give some serious thought. Just make sure, if you do merge, that it’s with a site or sites of similar calibre; I’d hate to look back think that TT went downhill when you discovered life after blogging.
Over the past couple of years, you’ve demonstrated your intelligence and maturity, so I’m sure that whatever you decide will be for the best. Just remember that there’s 800-1000 of us out here rooting for you.
Too many comments for me to read them all, but I want to say that I’ll miss TT if it’s gone. Even if it’s just an occasional post, it’d be nice to have it here. Regardless of what happens, though, best of luck to you in everything!
Really sorry to see that TT may be gone.
In my opinion, its the best, most well organized GMing resource on the web. Thanks for all that you’ve done.
whatever you do, however you play, gaming is for fun. if its not fun, don’t do it. save yourself, save your dice.
hey man,
look i just have to say i think this is the best GMing resource out there and id be sad to see it shutdown, but obviously what ever you want to do you should do. if i could choose any structure it would be to have the forum and wiki stay up and if possible have a once a week post on the blog… anyway thanks for all the great content
I love the re-runs feature! Just keep the re-runs and the site going and you will be the best! Your GM advice is really good and people appreciate quality, not quantity, so this site will probably continue being popular for a long time. If you keep writing, the posts will just get worse and worse and you’ll lose readership. Quit while you’re ahead
I too would like to say thank you. I still consider myself a new GM although I’ve played for years and the information found on your site has helped me understand the concept and mechanics behind being at least a good GM.
I really hope that the site stays open in some fashion although I do understand the concept of burnout.
I wish you well on your book [be sure to give us more info so we can get it later once you have published...] and whatever else you do…
Take care
Hey, I completely understand, but I just want to say this:
You really inspired a brand new GM. I’ve only been playing for about a year (GMing the whole time) and found TT just a couple months after starting. I’ll be sad to see it go, but I’ve learned so much from you and the community here and it’s driven me to more and more fun. Thank you so much.
Martin,
I think daily posts for two years is an amazing record, and its no wonder you’re burnt out. On the other hand, I think Treasure Tables is a fantastic resource and I would hate to see it go away. If you could be satisfied with guest posts, or an occasional original post yourself, I’d encourage you to keep the site active.
Meanwhile, congratulations on your great progress with your novel; I know that means a lot to you. If we can help in any way with your plans for Treasure Tables (whether it stays or goes), just let us know.
So it’s been like what, half a year since I commented every day?
Look, all that needed to be said to you, Martin, I said in my email. But to anyone else perusing these comments? Well, all I’ll say is that you’re in the right place for the best DM resource ever. (I don’t know WHAT blog Jim Bob’s reading.) If Martin decides to take the site offline, well… you best start readin’ the archives now, greenhorn. Y’allve gotta lotta readin’ to do, ’cause you should be readin’ the whole thing.
[...] against it, I simply asked questions to clarify her observations and opinions — I see that Martin is closing down Treasure Tables. I read his post and the entire time I’m saying, “yeah, what he said.” It [...]
I’d miss it – but you have to do what’s right for you!
Hey Martin,
When I first read the post informing us that TT ‘might’ not continue my heart sank, as a natural born pessimist I knew this would happen! I found TT because I was looking for a sight that would teach, inspire, communicate and entertain. Other sites do some of this but at TT there was consistency and a comprehensive look at GMing.
I have some experience of burn out and would have to echo those people who have said that if you close it down you’d miss it! Maybe not until 6 months later but I think you would. It goes without saying that all (-1) of the people who’ve posted would miss it too.
It’s obvious that you’re determined and enthusiatic about the site and the hobby and even the ’subpar’ posts have exceeded the quality of the majority on the web. You’ve set your own benchmarks and become a victim of your own success in a way.
Try not to be too harsh with yourself or give in to the temptation of making a FINAL decision to free yourself by drawing a line and saying its over.
Obviously money and time is a factor I can’t comment on. It’s obvious that as most of us you don’t have enough of either but if there is anyway this site could continue without taking a toll on you I think in the long term you’ll be happier.
And of course so will all of us!
Martin,
Everything else has been said. I only have 2 words for you.
Thank you.
Mark
First off, thanks for all the time you’ve spent on this blog. I think it represents a monumental effort and a real love for GMing.
Second, I think that a break *at least* is well deserved.
Third, I’d be sad but understanding to see TT go. When I read your post about the NaNoMo and how you’d be considering a permanent break, I kinda felt this was coming. I used to do free character portraits for people’s D&D characters online through message boards, and after building up a backlog and straining to maintain enthusiasm for a year and a half when I really wanted to be doing my own art, I finally called it quits. I’d echo the above sentiments regarding which of the options to go with should TT live on, namely a reduced schedule (daily is crazy) and guest writers. I also suggest that if this is something that you attend like a job, you should get paid for it like a job too. You’ve poured a lot more love and creativity into this site than some painters do into their work that sells for thousands of dollars a piece. While I know that upping your readership and thinking about getting more paid advertising on this site sounds like a daunting task, having that extra money come in might sweeten the deal.
In any case, be well, thanks for all the hard work, best of luck in your writing endeavors, and most importantly, happy GMing!
I’ve been publishing Nuketown for 11 years now, first in webzine form, then in blog form, then as a podcast, then as a hybrid. I’ve taken a few breaks from the site, usually in the form of a summer hiatus or three.
My advice to you is twofold: first, do what works for you. I know some people like to say they’re blogging for their readers, but ultimately, that’s a recipe for permanent burnout — you need to be working for yourself, at a schedule that meets your needs, in a format that keeps you interested
If that’s a complete hiatus, then so be it, but in my experience switching things up and changing your own expectations can work wonders.
Which leads to my second bit of advice: don’t close any doors you’ll have trouble re-opening. You might find, two years down the line, that you’d really wished you’d backburnered it instead.
[...] those that missed it in his posting, Treasure Tables is Unlikely to Continue, Martin states that after taking the 39 days off from posting (he reran previous postings during [...]
Aw, nuts! I’ve been enjoying your stuff for maybe two months now. I still haven’t read all of the old posts.
Thank you, it was a fun ride.
Lee
Burnout sucks. Occasional enthusiastic posts would be better than forcing yourself to write something every day.
(I am a lurker, I read many of the posts, used several of them.)
I really think that continuing the site with less of a workload on yourself really is the way to go. Have you seen http://www.roleplayingtips.com ? It’s a place with a great weekly newsletter about GMing advice.
Maybe you could talk with the people who run that, and see where that goes.
in everything change is unavoidiable. follow your heart and I wish you the best.
Martin,
You’ve created a great thing.
Yet, I understand the burn out.
I want to let you know that your posts have helped me with the game I’ve been designing for the last year. The community here is mature, productive and interesting. -I hope that TT can live in one form or another.
Thanks for all the hard work.
-Mark
TT has been a daily habit of mine for a long time. I will miss the great advice, delivered with just enough wit and humor, a great deal.
I hope that TT finds a way to continue. I would think that a rotating list of writers, with Martin at the helm, each posting once a week would work well.
Thanks again Martin for all of the time and energy put into starting and maintaining a great web communnity
Cadia
[...] from Treasure Tables has announced he probably won’t continue with the site. Thanks for all the good content over the [...]
I hope you will keep up the site as an archive and for occasional posts when you feel inspiration. Working to a deadline can be very stressful and is also an excellent way of clearing the mind of ideas
. Unless you are being paid in some fashion it’s seldom worth the pain. I think your notion of getting help to keep the wiki and such up was an excellent one as well.
Mostly, though, I figure you should keep this up as more of a hobby. Post when you find something you really want to talk about. Put up guest blogs when they impress you and just put up links when you see something cool.
I know there are people who will grouse and kvetch incessantly that, “he hasn’t posted all week(waah!),” sometimes I’m one of those lice. Sorry. Unless they’re willing to pay you(in which case, hey!), don’t worry about it.
In any case, thanks for the good works, mate.
Heh. This is the first post I’ve read here. Google Reader just recommended this site to me. (Based on the other RSS feeds I subscribe to.)
“Cut back my posting schedule from seven days a week to five (weekends off) or even three (M-W-F, perhaps).”
Well, there’s your problem right there. Why do you have a schedule at all? I have to agree with those who have said: Post when you have something to say, not just because it’s a new day.
No need to throw the baby out with the bath-water. Just throw out the problem (the schedule), which seems like a pretty ill-conceived idea in the first place.
To everyone who has commented so far: Thank you! Your support means a lot to me.
The blog post above has been updated to mention that the forums will almost certainly be sticking around, and that I’m still considering my options for the blog.
I’ve read and appreciated all of your comments, and I’m still very much interested in feedback — don’t let my commenting now stop you from adding your voice to this thread!
Thanks for the update, Martin!
OK, geeks!! You heard the man!!
Get back to the forums and START POSTING!!
(/drillsgtvoice)
Ok, I am not a long time community member, I only originally read this blog because my other half had it in his RSS feeds… but that said, I would hate to see it go. I have read these last few months with great interest, and while I am very rarely the GM in a game, in a way reading the gm’ing tips helped me to become a better player as well. Just knowing that the GM in a game is considering all fo these things, is going through the trouble to really make it fun, made me more willing to work at being a good, thoughtful player… and cutting the gm a little slack when things got… complicated.
Please.. keep TT around, post when you have something to say, run okld posts wehn you don’t, or let guest GM post entries.. but don’t do away with the only GM’ing blog I’m willing to invest the time in reading.
Martin, I really like TT. I think you offer a great service. Because of you a community has grown. You should take pride in that.
That said; consider the following analysis which I hope is reasonably objective and not too discouraging.
From my limited perspective: TT, with its current format and style, will only ever serve a small niche of GM’s. If making some kind of money is your primary goal from TT, then selling to VV_GM is probably the wisest choice because I don’t see the niche you serve large enough to support money making.
Here is my hypothesis as to why that niche is so small.
TT does a great job addressing and discussing philosophical and social problems encountered when GMing a traditional style game.
Thus, TT does not serve GMs drawn to the more crunching, mechanical aspects of GMing particularly well.
TT, because it focuses mostly on traditional games, does not serve GMs drawn to the indie, story-game techniques particularly well.
Thus, you get a small niche of philosophical, smart, traditional GMs that are not all about the crunch. It’s a great atmosphere, but not a money making machine.
Now for some wild speculation…
…and maybe a bit of projection of my own feelings about gaming on to your situation, but I really felt the spark went out at TT when your Burning Empires game did not take with your group.
The Burning Empires text is an excellent, clear-cut source of GM advice, much like the advice you gave here at TT. I can see it really harmonizing with your philosophical focus on GMing. When that didn’t take, I can only imagine it really just took the wind out of your sails.
So maybe it is not burn out as much as it is disillusionment with gaming in general.
Anyhow, thanks for all the work you did, I really appreciated it. (Don’t I still owe you a beer?)
As a fellow RPG-site manager, I feel your pain. You write prose and get burned out. I write code and get the same way. You pour your heart (and time and money) into something, and get next to nothing back.
I’ll toss in my $0.02 as to how to proceed:
From all your ideas, I like the group blog one the best. There are probably a lot of people who would be honored to write for TT. Recruit 3-4 of them, and have each person responsible for 1 article a week. Use a private forum to coordinate who is writing what, and just see how it goes.
You’ve expended a lot of effort building up the TT name. Even if you have to scale back, it’s better than just letting it all evaporate. Besides, closing the doors on TT would be a terrible blow to the online RPG community.
You need to do what you need to do. I have truly enjoyed the blog, but I realize nothing lasts forever. I would like the wiki and the forums to stick around. Anything else I’ll consider icing on the gaming cake.
Jai
Martin,
I’ve been a regular reader of TT since shortly after it started. Your posts and the reader comments have inspired me to be a better GM and a better player.
I’m glad to see your update about the forums. You’ve helped to build a valuable community here and I hope that continues. Regarding the blog, I agree with the calls for guest writers, or only posting when you really feel like it. A new post everyday is great for us, but you need to do what is best for you.
Thank you for two great years of gaming discussion!
Well, im not a regular commenter, actually a very rare one, but im a regular reader..
I really think this is a huge loss, unfortunately i found about this blog a bit too late, have enjoyed it for last couple months or bit more..
This is my favorite one, i fell like you know what u doin, and i wish i didnt have the language barrier so i could share the excellent articles with my country RPG community.
But i understand must be an exhaustive job, i myself never had the guts to bloggin like you, and i wont think about only myself about it and try to be a bit supportive.
I just will hope you will change your mind eventually and come back to us
While you dont, have fun gaming XD
Joyful news! TT isn’t ending – it’s just changing. A transitional phase! Sort of like the circle of life in The Lion King!
Seriously – Good News!
Glad to hear that TT is not going to follow one of your own “Bad Ways to End a Campaign” post.
Uhh…not much else to add other than that smart-a** remark. Martin (and all the guest bloggers & contributors on the forums), if I didn’t say it before, I’ll say it now: Thanks for coming up with this blog where, “a small niche of philosophical, smart, traditional GMs that are not all about the crunch” can get together and pick each other’s brains. It’s made me a better GM.
I read this when it first came out but I wanted to wait untill I had gotten past my emotional respone. (Noooooooooooooo!)
Well I am sad, I have been greatly enjoying treasure tables and it had a tremendous influence on my current campaign.
However I also run a blog, and I made a decision a long time ago to post only what I wanted and post only when I want too. I cannot fault you in anyway way.
But can I recomennd highly:
-allow guest posters
-and you should only post when you have something you want to write about, rather than trying to keep a schedule.
an eratic schedule may seem odd but that is what feeds are for, as this part of my google homepage.
Thank you for all your wonderful work Martin.
I hope it continues even in the smallest portion.
My suggestion is that you go to http://objectivismonline.net/ and check out the front page. It’s very similar to the way TT is set up currently, but instead of having a single-person blog on the front page, we have a meta-blog that draws from many different volunteer contributors. So, you could keep TT going in pretty much its current form without having to exhaust yourself writing new material every day.
When I’m actually blogging about Objectivism, I show up on Oo.net sometimes, I’d be happy to be a member of a TT metablog.
Longcoat said: “Glad to hear that TT is not going to follow one of your own “Bad Ways to End a Campaign” post.” I don’t know, I think it would have been kind of funny for this post to be named “How to End a Popular Gaming Blog”, it would fit the theme of the site.
Speaking of Ending with a fast forward: VV_GM I’m curious as to what the new changes will be, and I’ll be looking forward to the official news post about it. **nudge nudge**
[...] the past few days, I’ve had enough time — and an amazing amount of feedback — to fully think (and rethink) through my decision to stop writing Treasure Tables. My thanks [...]
Umm, uhhh, yeah . . .
That was a smart ass remark. I have no idea what Martin is plannning for the blog. I’m just some guy who doesn’t want to see TT go away.
Now due to my amazing psionic abilities I can tell you what has happened in alternate universe #12885:
TT has been taken over by the oil companies and international banking industry. Instead of posting about GMing topics it is merely a marketing campaign to fool the people into buying a new RPG called “Suckers”. Those who play “Suckers” find themselves craving cheesey Hillary Duff chick flicks and Jean Claude Van Damme action flicks nightly. Eventually these poor souls give up all rights to their earthly posessions and begin to knit sweaters for sea horses.
Alternate Martin starts the “TT Underground” in an ironic twist of fate, and alternate me is in charge of the underground railroad. It is an actual railroad, but we refuse to call it a subway, and I collect tickets for everyone going to happyland. At happyland we distribute copies of D&D 4th edition which takes five minutes to prep for guaranteed. How does this thwart the plans of the evil oil companies and international bankers? It doesn’t, but feats are now based on a really cool trading card system so no one minds.
Yet as to what will happen to TT here in our reality I have no idea. And yes, I am ashamed . . .
Martin
As a blog writer myself, I have no idea how you’ve managed to post daily for so long. My hat off to you for that.
I’d love to see TT continue in some form. While I don’t visit that often, the value I get out when I do is massive.
I really, really hope you continue, in some for or another.
Have a great christmas break, and think it over in the new year.