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	<title>Comments on: GMs as Creators and Managers</title>
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	<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers</link>
	<description>Game mastering advice, ideas &#038; resources &#8226; Dedicated to helping GMs</description>
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		<title>By: ScottM</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13665</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 01:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13665</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m in the same pool as someone who once looked down on designers/prepared notes, but eventually learned to appreciate both the material and the GMs who are good at using it.

I think that using other people&#039;s materials is another key skill; we all do it by using someone else&#039;s system, but you&#039;ll see different levels of success.  Different levels of making the game or the adventure their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in the same pool as someone who once looked down on designers/prepared notes, but eventually learned to appreciate both the material and the GMs who are good at using it.</p>
<p>I think that using other people&#8217;s materials is another key skill; we all do it by using someone else&#8217;s system, but you&#8217;ll see different levels of success.  Different levels of making the game or the adventure their own.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13584</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13584</guid>
		<description>I agree that there&#039;s room for sub-divisions, but what I like so much about Walt&#039;s basic division is that it really cuts to the heart of an issue I&#039;ve never seen or heard brought up anywhere else.

Trying to look at this split objectively, I&#039;d say that a GM with both skillsets is categorically more &lt;i&gt;experienced&lt;/i&gt; and versatile than a GM who lags in one area or the other.

Assuming you define the quality of a GM&#039;s skills by how much everyone at the table has at her games, though, I don&#039;t think either type is superior. I&#039;ll always take a GM that delivers me a fun game in their strongest style over a GM that runs a bad game in a style they&#039;re less comfortable with. And as a player, I don&#039;t much care which style of game I&#039;m playing in -- my litmus test starts and ends with &quot;Am I having fun? Is everyone else having fun?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that there&#8217;s room for sub-divisions, but what I like so much about Walt&#8217;s basic division is that it really cuts to the heart of an issue I&#8217;ve never seen or heard brought up anywhere else.</p>
<p>Trying to look at this split objectively, I&#8217;d say that a GM with both skillsets is categorically more <i>experienced</i> and versatile than a GM who lags in one area or the other.</p>
<p>Assuming you define the quality of a GM&#8217;s skills by how much everyone at the table has at her games, though, I don&#8217;t think either type is superior. I&#8217;ll always take a GM that delivers me a fun game in their strongest style over a GM that runs a bad game in a style they&#8217;re less comfortable with. And as a player, I don&#8217;t much care which style of game I&#8217;m playing in &#8212; my litmus test starts and ends with &#8220;Am I having fun? Is everyone else having fun?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Walt C</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13573</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13573</guid>
		<description>Great discussion, everybody!

I just wanted to make one final point. When I parsed the terms, I never intended to imply that a Manager does no &quot;creating.&quot; Good managers adapt the materials to their group and PC decisions. This, however, is done on a far different scale than a creator.

I&#039;ll have to muse on the &quot;world-builder&quot; Creator vs. the &quot;adventure&quot; Creator. That&#039;s a very good distinction!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion, everybody!</p>
<p>I just wanted to make one final point. When I parsed the terms, I never intended to imply that a Manager does no &#8220;creating.&#8221; Good managers adapt the materials to their group and PC decisions. This, however, is done on a far different scale than a creator.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to muse on the &#8220;world-builder&#8221; Creator vs. the &#8220;adventure&#8221; Creator. That&#8217;s a very good distinction!</p>
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		<title>By: Carolina aka Troy Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13554</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolina aka Troy Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13554</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve waited a few days to answer this one, because I think this may very well be the most important distinction ever drawn on this blog.

I would go so far as say that there is even a signficant different among the creators. That is, those who can design encounters and scenerios, use a different skill set than those who create worlds and settings.

That doesn&#039;t mean a single individual can&#039;t do both well, but it seems to me to require a different tool set. Settings creators utilize very macro thinking, whereas scenerio designers are involved in the mechanics at a micro level.

But art of the Game Mastering clearly falls into the &quot;manager&quot; category. As for the difference between the homebrew and the published guy, all I can say is it probably takes a great deal of imagination and innovation to take a published work, and &quot;make it their own.&quot; 

Distilling published material and conveying it to players so they can be involved in an interesting and compelling encounter is a much under-appreciated skill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve waited a few days to answer this one, because I think this may very well be the most important distinction ever drawn on this blog.</p>
<p>I would go so far as say that there is even a signficant different among the creators. That is, those who can design encounters and scenerios, use a different skill set than those who create worlds and settings.</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t mean a single individual can&#8217;t do both well, but it seems to me to require a different tool set. Settings creators utilize very macro thinking, whereas scenerio designers are involved in the mechanics at a micro level.</p>
<p>But art of the Game Mastering clearly falls into the &#8220;manager&#8221; category. As for the difference between the homebrew and the published guy, all I can say is it probably takes a great deal of imagination and innovation to take a published work, and &#8220;make it their own.&#8221; </p>
<p>Distilling published material and conveying it to players so they can be involved in an interesting and compelling encounter is a much under-appreciated skill.</p>
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		<title>By: wizofice</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13550</link>
		<dc:creator>wizofice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13550</guid>
		<description>My thought is that even &quot;manager-only&quot; GMs really do some Creation to fill in the blanks, change things that don&#039;t fit with the world the adventure is being run in, tailoring things to the specific PCs, etc.  It&#039;s like Monte Cook said, &quot;That&#039;s why your the Dungeon MASTER, not the Dungeon READ-OUT-LOUD-ER.&quot;

So, I have to reject that someone can be a good GM and not do any creation at all.  It&#039;s a form of bad GMing not to adapt at all what someone else has prepared for your group, but I would NOT say that good Managers are inferior to good Creators... both are good things and if you have a GM who can do both well you are very lucky indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My thought is that even &#8220;manager-only&#8221; GMs really do some Creation to fill in the blanks, change things that don&#8217;t fit with the world the adventure is being run in, tailoring things to the specific PCs, etc.  It&#8217;s like Monte Cook said, &#8220;That&#8217;s why your the Dungeon MASTER, not the Dungeon READ-OUT-LOUD-ER.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, I have to reject that someone can be a good GM and not do any creation at all.  It&#8217;s a form of bad GMing not to adapt at all what someone else has prepared for your group, but I would NOT say that good Managers are inferior to good Creators&#8230; both are good things and if you have a GM who can do both well you are very lucky indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: John Arcadian</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13545</link>
		<dc:creator>John Arcadian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13545</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve ever subscribed to the idea that a GM is only good if he uses home brewed stuff. Why publish any kind of world setting if that is the case?   I think Walt C makes a great distinction though.  Some GMs think that making a world is the important part.  While I&#039;m a fan of that, when you actually sit down at the table you are not there to keep building the world.  You are there to Manage what happens to a group of people in it. Since you&#039;ve got control over the world (created by you or someone else), why not modify it to fit the situation at hand?  That is what I think a good Manager GM does. You manage the situation, not the world around it. I&#039;ve always been a fan of player focused games, though.  You can&#039;t completely change stuff to suit player needs though. That would be completely unrealistic, so I think you have to play a bit of the Creator if you are going to be a good manager. Work out how big picture stuff will affect the situation you are managing.  Generally I&#039;ve found it is easier to get players to buy into this if they have a bit of an idea as to what they are facing. &quot;Ok guys, the general theme of this session is: abandoned village, dungeon crawl, political manuevering.&quot; etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve ever subscribed to the idea that a GM is only good if he uses home brewed stuff. Why publish any kind of world setting if that is the case?   I think Walt C makes a great distinction though.  Some GMs think that making a world is the important part.  While I&#8217;m a fan of that, when you actually sit down at the table you are not there to keep building the world.  You are there to Manage what happens to a group of people in it. Since you&#8217;ve got control over the world (created by you or someone else), why not modify it to fit the situation at hand?  That is what I think a good Manager GM does. You manage the situation, not the world around it. I&#8217;ve always been a fan of player focused games, though.  You can&#8217;t completely change stuff to suit player needs though. That would be completely unrealistic, so I think you have to play a bit of the Creator if you are going to be a good manager. Work out how big picture stuff will affect the situation you are managing.  Generally I&#8217;ve found it is easier to get players to buy into this if they have a bit of an idea as to what they are facing. &#8220;Ok guys, the general theme of this session is: abandoned village, dungeon crawl, political manuevering.&#8221; etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff Nickerson</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13543</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Nickerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 01:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13543</guid>
		<description>I think GMing a session with someone else&#039;s notes is too challenging. Sorry, but for me it&#039;s just easier to make it up myself (and organize it myself) than to learn something someone made up.
If that makes me a hack, then I&#039;m a hack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think GMing a session with someone else&#8217;s notes is too challenging. Sorry, but for me it&#8217;s just easier to make it up myself (and organize it myself) than to learn something someone made up.<br />
If that makes me a hack, then I&#8217;m a hack.</p>
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		<title>By: Millsy</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13540</link>
		<dc:creator>Millsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13540</guid>
		<description>Well, let&#039;s all throw in our twopennorth...

Although, until recently, I subscribed to the view that to be a great GM you had to run homebrew stuff, I don&#039;t agree with it any more at all.

The skills involved with being a great manager run far deeper than those required to write a great module/adventure. Acting, emotional intelligence, time management, pacing, empathy, consistency... all the time with 4-6 players staring at you. Compare this with prep... in the comfort of your own home, you can take as much time as you like over it, you generally know your players and their characters... I&#039;d much rather be in front of a PC preparing what might happen than being sat in front of them deciding what will happen.

Besides, most of the really great campaigns I&#039;ve played in have been based on published adventures.

But here&#039;s my real point...

Now, writing an adventure knowing you won&#039;t be managing it... like game designers do, I guess... that&#039;s impressive... and managing a game without any prep... like crazy improv GMs do, I guess... that scares me. That would impress me.

Perhaps a great GM is a great manager who CAN run homebrew modules, or CAN run published modules, or CAN improv a session out of thin air... I know this is a big ask, but we&#039;re talking &#039;great&#039;, which to me means aspirational.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, let&#8217;s all throw in our twopennorth&#8230;</p>
<p>Although, until recently, I subscribed to the view that to be a great GM you had to run homebrew stuff, I don&#8217;t agree with it any more at all.</p>
<p>The skills involved with being a great manager run far deeper than those required to write a great module/adventure. Acting, emotional intelligence, time management, pacing, empathy, consistency&#8230; all the time with 4-6 players staring at you. Compare this with prep&#8230; in the comfort of your own home, you can take as much time as you like over it, you generally know your players and their characters&#8230; I&#8217;d much rather be in front of a PC preparing what might happen than being sat in front of them deciding what will happen.</p>
<p>Besides, most of the really great campaigns I&#8217;ve played in have been based on published adventures.</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s my real point&#8230;</p>
<p>Now, writing an adventure knowing you won&#8217;t be managing it&#8230; like game designers do, I guess&#8230; that&#8217;s impressive&#8230; and managing a game without any prep&#8230; like crazy improv GMs do, I guess&#8230; that scares me. That would impress me.</p>
<p>Perhaps a great GM is a great manager who CAN run homebrew modules, or CAN run published modules, or CAN improv a session out of thin air&#8230; I know this is a big ask, but we&#8217;re talking &#8216;great&#8217;, which to me means aspirational.</p>
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		<title>By: darelf</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13539</link>
		<dc:creator>darelf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13539</guid>
		<description>Does a &quot;great&quot; GM also do part of the Designer/Creator stuff even when they are using published modules?  Maybe we call it improv, or whatever, but don&#039;t the so-called great GMs &quot;own&quot; the adventures they run?  I mean things like dialog, action, description, etc.

Aren&#039;t the great GMs the ones who can do the Designer/Creator stuff even when they following a published module?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does a &#8220;great&#8221; GM also do part of the Designer/Creator stuff even when they are using published modules?  Maybe we call it improv, or whatever, but don&#8217;t the so-called great GMs &#8220;own&#8221; the adventures they run?  I mean things like dialog, action, description, etc.</p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t the great GMs the ones who can do the Designer/Creator stuff even when they following a published module?</p>
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		<title>By: Walt C</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13538</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13538</guid>
		<description>Since we&#039;re waxing philosophical:

Is a player a good player if he always plays well during the session, even though he always uses pregens or lets the GM stat out his character?

My GM question is more of a &quot;when evaluating a GM, can we look solely to Manager as a criterion?&quot;

Interesting how it doesn&#039;t go the other way. A Creator that doesn&#039;t manage (such as writing published adventures) won&#039;t usually get called a &quot;GM.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since we&#8217;re waxing philosophical:</p>
<p>Is a player a good player if he always plays well during the session, even though he always uses pregens or lets the GM stat out his character?</p>
<p>My GM question is more of a &#8220;when evaluating a GM, can we look solely to Manager as a criterion?&#8221;</p>
<p>Interesting how it doesn&#8217;t go the other way. A Creator that doesn&#8217;t manage (such as writing published adventures) won&#8217;t usually get called a &#8220;GM.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: drow</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13537</link>
		<dc:creator>drow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13537</guid>
		<description>i&#039;ve always considered a good GM to be first and foremost a good manager.  being a good designer as well is kinda neat, but hardly the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;ve always considered a good GM to be first and foremost a good manager.  being a good designer as well is kinda neat, but hardly the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Clayton</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers/comment-page-1#comment-13536</link>
		<dc:creator>Clayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/10/gms-as-creators-and-managers#comment-13536</guid>
		<description>I have not really ever used a published adventure.  Its not for dislike or because I am better then they are...but I have never found one that &quot;fit&quot; me.  I dont think someone who runs games ONLY by published adventure is less then me.  They dont have NPC Dialog in front of them, or even in most cases an NPC answer to every Player question.

If I ever found an adventure I enjoyed I would probebly insert it into my grand arc and give it a shot.  I think we all excell at different things.  Perhaps the person who is not very good at making their own adventures is a master of the rules, while the guy who does is simply &quot;so so&quot;.

What happens then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not really ever used a published adventure.  Its not for dislike or because I am better then they are&#8230;but I have never found one that &#8220;fit&#8221; me.  I dont think someone who runs games ONLY by published adventure is less then me.  They dont have NPC Dialog in front of them, or even in most cases an NPC answer to every Player question.</p>
<p>If I ever found an adventure I enjoyed I would probebly insert it into my grand arc and give it a shot.  I think we all excell at different things.  Perhaps the person who is not very good at making their own adventures is a master of the rules, while the guy who does is simply &#8220;so so&#8221;.</p>
<p>What happens then?</p>
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