Pretty nice, but I’m still leery of the whole subscription model thing. Not what I’m looking for when I’m trying to use online game-table software.

I think that’s theme-dependent, and I don’t know how to change it. I really need to upgrade my WP version (a nightmarish process given all the changes I’ve made), and I’d rather not try to figure this out before potentially wiping it out anyway. For now, hopefully you can live without this — sorry about that!

(Walt C) Honestly, what I’d like to see more of is a company offering the PDF for free if you already own the Hardcover.

Yes!

I think I get the whole “PDF version costs about the same as the print version” mentality, as the same amount of work went into producing both versions — so in theory they should have nearly the same value for gamers, right? Wrong, IMO — at least for now.

When a much more significant number of GMs are relying on laptops for their games (D&D Insider, anyone?), I can see people switching over entirely to PDF versions of books they otherwise might have bought in print.

Until then, though, I think PDFs should be offered at a substantial discount over their print brethren — and whenever possible, given away to purchasers of the hardcopies.

So I agree, and I agree with having PDFs in principle (because I have no problem reading and learning from PDFs) but there’s still plenty of resistance.

You are completely right about the prices of PDFs. For some things they are OUTRAGEOUS! I have a hard enough time justifying $35 for a hardcover book. Especially when I am not sure of the quality of the product. Dropping that much on a PDF (or more in the case of some of your examples) is insane. The beauty of a book is that it is physical and easily accessible. It feels like some companies are double dipping. You are paying for design and content once. With a PDF you aren’t paying for shipping, binding, printing, etc. Why charge more? You can make the same profit margin with a lower price and get a higher number of customers.

Still the fact that PDFs are so copyable is always going to be an issue. So I can see where some companies feel that they are selling the book at a fair price because you, your friend, their friend, and possibly torrentworld are going to have it. Conversely, there is no great PDF protection scheme that isn’t breakable, invasive, or annoying. Still it’s no reason for inflated PDF prices.

Point Taken You can see which end of the market I generally work for! Although, to be fair, a $15-20 cut is a pretty good deal.

Most PDFs are still much cheaper than the hardbacks (and the hardbacks can often be found at or near PDF prices on Amazon). Oddly, most WOTC PDFs are highly priced (I’ve often chosen to get the book from Amazon rather than the PDF because the price difference was negligible.

Generally, you don’t need multiple copies of supplements such as the Players Handbook II , as only a player or two might need it(unless your group is primarily made up of Duskblades and Knights; even then, WOTC offers the Knight as a free download). I’m not sure about Ptolus.

I do laugh at PDF prices, but not because they’re so cheap.

(Price in parenthesis is the printed version, either via an online store with it in stock (if I can find it), or MSRP.)

Burning Empires: $25 ($45)
Deadlands: Reloaded: $25 ($40)
Dungeons & Dragons Player’s Handbook II: $35 ($24!)
Ptolus: $60 ($120)
Scion: Hero: $25 ($23!)
Shadowrun: $25 ($23!)
Spirit of the Century: $15 ($30)
Vampire: the Requiem: $25 ($23!)

There are PDF supplements being produced for the price ranges you’re quoting, usually by smaller publishers. And perhaps the above prices are reasonable for some definitions of reasonable given the increased ease of copyright infringement and added benefit of searching. But for core rules (the thing you’re most likely to want to share), the PDFs aren’t so cheap that it’s a no brainer to buy them.

(Martin, any chance of ul/li tag support in the comments?)

Some solutions if you only have one copy of the rules:

- Assuming there isn’t stuff the GM needs to reference without the players knowledge, designate a player as the rule book person. They are in charge of looking up rules. This can speed game play if the GM can handle something else while the rule is looked up (even if it’s just expounding on the background of the setting or something).

- During char gen, work through the book as a group (“ok, everyone roll 3d6 6 times. Ok, the character classes are fighter, magic user, and cleric, etc…”). You may have to pass the book around a bit when people need to look at a table or something.

On another forum, there was a discussion about audio books. They would be cool for some aspects since the audio media won’t get tired of reading aloud, or start mumbling, things that have happened when I’ve tried to read rules aloud to the players.

One thing that I appreciate is when the rule set is broken into several books. That makes it easier to share a single copy of the rules. I would love to see a system where the chargen was broken down into one book per character class (ok, Traveller ended up this way sort of, with the various supplements each covering a single service).

Frank

So who buys the rules? If you’re a reasonably stable group and you’re going to be playing the same game system for a while, I think it’s reasonable to ask your players to spring for their own copies. However, the time that books are most useful, chargen, is frequently the moment when it’s not clear that you’ll be playing for a long time. The same goes for one-shots, short campaigns, and pilot/pitch sessions. Asking a player to drop thirty or so bucks on a book he may use twice isn’t terribly reasonable. This does create the unfortunate situation that when trying a new game, players are more likely to buy the rules a few sessions in, much too late for chargen to benefit from it.

On the up side, some games have a freely available Open Gaming License System Reference Document (D&D or Spirit of the Century). This is awesome. Pretty much everyone has a computer at home, and can read the rules before coming to chargen. And, at least in my groups, a few people own laptops and can bring them for chargen (when multiple copies are most useful).

I’ve never “shared” PDFs with my buddies for two reasons: 1) it’s definitely copyright infringement (assuming you paid something for the PDF), and 2) PDFs are usually laughably inexpensive. If you want it, spend the 2-5 bucks to own it.

DNAphil, I’ve tried your method, but I guess since I went to school before the internet revolution, I find it quicker to thumb through a book than scrolling through a PDF. I much prefer printing out my references than leaving them on my laptop for a game.

Walt

The PDF’s are great for having for reference. Often in the game, I will leave the HC version of the rules out for the players, and on my laptop, have the PDF available for reference.