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	<title>Comments on: Called Shot to the Nuts</title>
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	<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts</link>
	<description>Game mastering advice, ideas &#038; resources &#8226; Dedicated to helping GMs</description>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12871</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12871</guid>
		<description>One of the reasons I enjoy writing posts like this is because so many different perspectives emerge in the comments. It&#039;s an odd topic, and definitely one that ties into personal experience.

(Darrin) &lt;i&gt;I fail to see how going for the groin makes one a dick. We all know that most things have vulnerable areas and when you want to bring something down fast, the best way is to target those vulnerabilities. A kick in the junk is often a good way to incapacitate a human male without killing them. So please explain how wanting to end a fight quickly = dickage.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m definitely making a gross generalization here, but we&#039;re coming at it from different perspectives. There are lots of perfectly valid reasons why a player might want to have their PC smack someone in the nuts, and yours -- to end the fight quickly -- is one of them.

If you&#039;ve never run into this as a red flag, so much the better. I haven&#039;t enjoyed any of the con events where it&#039;s served as a red flag, but that&#039;s just my experience. At its heart, this is a social issue that just happens to involve mechanics. ;)

(Rocket Lettice) &lt;i&gt;Kudos to Martin for posting a topic that allows us to refer to genitalia figuratively and repeatedly.&lt;/i&gt;

I had fun with this one myself. I swear fairly frequently in real life, but I don&#039;t often have much call to do it in TT posts. The occasional exception is refreshing. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the reasons I enjoy writing posts like this is because so many different perspectives emerge in the comments. It&#8217;s an odd topic, and definitely one that ties into personal experience.</p>
<p>(Darrin) <i>I fail to see how going for the groin makes one a dick. We all know that most things have vulnerable areas and when you want to bring something down fast, the best way is to target those vulnerabilities. A kick in the junk is often a good way to incapacitate a human male without killing them. So please explain how wanting to end a fight quickly = dickage.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m definitely making a gross generalization here, but we&#8217;re coming at it from different perspectives. There are lots of perfectly valid reasons why a player might want to have their PC smack someone in the nuts, and yours &#8212; to end the fight quickly &#8212; is one of them.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve never run into this as a red flag, so much the better. I haven&#8217;t enjoyed any of the con events where it&#8217;s served as a red flag, but that&#8217;s just my experience. At its heart, this is a social issue that just happens to involve mechanics. <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>(Rocket Lettice) <i>Kudos to Martin for posting a topic that allows us to refer to genitalia figuratively and repeatedly.</i></p>
<p>I had fun with this one myself. I swear fairly frequently in real life, but I don&#8217;t often have much call to do it in TT posts. The occasional exception is refreshing. <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Darrin</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12837</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12837</guid>
		<description>To me, a spotlight hog is a spotlight hog and should be taken aside and talked to.  Trying to discourage their behavior in game with penalties seems rather passive aggressive.  Address the real problem.

I guess I have just never had the problem of a player using any specific maneuver to be a jerk.  Any time I have had a player attempt any sort of called shot, it has been appropriate and the player was quite willing to deal with a reasonable penalty to pull off the maneuver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, a spotlight hog is a spotlight hog and should be taken aside and talked to.  Trying to discourage their behavior in game with penalties seems rather passive aggressive.  Address the real problem.</p>
<p>I guess I have just never had the problem of a player using any specific maneuver to be a jerk.  Any time I have had a player attempt any sort of called shot, it has been appropriate and the player was quite willing to deal with a reasonable penalty to pull off the maneuver.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Royle</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12832</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Royle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12832</guid>
		<description>I agree with Bignose on this issue (as opposed to my first ever post on this site which disagreed with his viewpoint:-)). I run Iron Heroes and if a player wants to try this its covered in the rules - its the outcome that matters &#039;I want to slow his movement for a round so I&#039;ll kick him in the nads &amp; run off&#039;&amp; that kind of thing is covered in Iron Heroes. I also believe &#039;Groin Stomp&#039; is a combat skill in Hackmaster for those who really want this manouver included specifically in their rule sets lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Bignose on this issue (as opposed to my first ever post on this site which disagreed with his viewpoint:-)). I run Iron Heroes and if a player wants to try this its covered in the rules &#8211; its the outcome that matters &#8216;I want to slow his movement for a round so I&#8217;ll kick him in the nads &amp; run off&#8217;&amp; that kind of thing is covered in Iron Heroes. I also believe &#8216;Groin Stomp&#8217; is a combat skill in Hackmaster for those who really want this manouver included specifically in their rule sets lol</p>
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		<title>By: Rocket Lettice</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12829</link>
		<dc:creator>Rocket Lettice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12829</guid>
		<description>Kudos to Martin for posting a topic that allows us to refer to genitalia figuratively and repeatedly. 

Let&#039;s recap: Nuts. Dick. Nards. Tool. Nads. Greatclub. Groin. Junk. Jimmy. Paladin. Worm. Marbles. Twig and Two Berries.  

I know some of those weren’t really phallic references, but they looked so good on the list…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos to Martin for posting a topic that allows us to refer to genitalia figuratively and repeatedly. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s recap: Nuts. Dick. Nards. Tool. Nads. Greatclub. Groin. Junk. Jimmy. Paladin. Worm. Marbles. Twig and Two Berries.  </p>
<p>I know some of those weren’t really phallic references, but they looked so good on the list…</p>
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		<title>By: Argonel</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12828</link>
		<dc:creator>Argonel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12828</guid>
		<description>Addition notes to comment #5.  In addition to being pretty good a prtecting sensative ares such as the groin.  There is a huge range of responses to being kinked there.  The three most common are hunch over incapacitated to some degree, minimal response (It&#039;s just a hit), or big adrenaline dump and berzerkish rage.  So to put odds on it probably half the time it will be incapacitating, 1/8 nothing much, and 3/8 will result in recieving a major smackdown.  Probably worth trying if you don&#039;t have better options, but not a sure thing.

As noted it makes a good red flag to check if the player is roll playing or roleplaying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Addition notes to comment #5.  In addition to being pretty good a prtecting sensative ares such as the groin.  There is a huge range of responses to being kinked there.  The three most common are hunch over incapacitated to some degree, minimal response (It&#8217;s just a hit), or big adrenaline dump and berzerkish rage.  So to put odds on it probably half the time it will be incapacitating, 1/8 nothing much, and 3/8 will result in recieving a major smackdown.  Probably worth trying if you don&#8217;t have better options, but not a sure thing.</p>
<p>As noted it makes a good red flag to check if the player is roll playing or roleplaying.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick the Wonder Algae</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12824</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick the Wonder Algae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12824</guid>
		<description>Back in 2nd edition DnD when a called shot was -4 to hit, my halberier regularly made called shots to the mouth and wrist vs spellcasters (to eliminate them using verbal and somatic components) and my DM let me get away with it.  While this logically made sense (and was semi-supported by the -4 penalty) it wasn&#039;t really what the rule was intended for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in 2nd edition DnD when a called shot was -4 to hit, my halberier regularly made called shots to the mouth and wrist vs spellcasters (to eliminate them using verbal and somatic components) and my DM let me get away with it.  While this logically made sense (and was semi-supported by the -4 penalty) it wasn&#8217;t really what the rule was intended for.</p>
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		<title>By: Clayton</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12822</link>
		<dc:creator>Clayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12822</guid>
		<description>I have only ever run into a situation with something like this once, and thankfully my player was doing it to be silly (Cause we had just watched the Gamers).

I try to avoid Called Shots personally.  It makes me have to do more work :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have only ever run into a situation with something like this once, and thankfully my player was doing it to be silly (Cause we had just watched the Gamers).</p>
<p>I try to avoid Called Shots personally.  It makes me have to do more work <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Calybos</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12821</link>
		<dc:creator>Calybos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12821</guid>
		<description>The most useful technique I&#039;ve found is to remind them that any maneuver available to PCs will forever more be available to their enemies too... and then ask if they REALLY want to go through with it.

That usually takes care of the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most useful technique I&#8217;ve found is to remind them that any maneuver available to PCs will forever more be available to their enemies too&#8230; and then ask if they REALLY want to go through with it.</p>
<p>That usually takes care of the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12815</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 06:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12815</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve played with a couple of players whose characters were intensely anti-male. This sort of thing just sort of flowed naturally out of the whole persona. They were playing &#039;difficulty cooperating with the party, due to excessive maleness&#039;, so doing this to a non-party member was, well, stress relief. ;) I can&#039;t remember whether this was a specific Flaw that they had picked up somehow, or what, but they played it as exactly that. Mechanically, they weren&#039;t getting any bonuses this way. (The contrary, probably.) Since the whole thing was far more story-oriented than roll-oriented, we just sort of took it in stride that one person would be doing things non-optimally when faced with anything exuding testosterone. &quot;This giant is only wearing armor up to his waist. He&#039;s gorgeous though.&quot; ... I still kick him....

I must admit that male members of the party were more interested in certain types of armor. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve played with a couple of players whose characters were intensely anti-male. This sort of thing just sort of flowed naturally out of the whole persona. They were playing &#8216;difficulty cooperating with the party, due to excessive maleness&#8217;, so doing this to a non-party member was, well, stress relief. <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  I can&#8217;t remember whether this was a specific Flaw that they had picked up somehow, or what, but they played it as exactly that. Mechanically, they weren&#8217;t getting any bonuses this way. (The contrary, probably.) Since the whole thing was far more story-oriented than roll-oriented, we just sort of took it in stride that one person would be doing things non-optimally when faced with anything exuding testosterone. &#8220;This giant is only wearing armor up to his waist. He&#8217;s gorgeous though.&#8221; &#8230; I still kick him&#8230;.</p>
<p>I must admit that male members of the party were more interested in certain types of armor. <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Telas</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12813</link>
		<dc:creator>Telas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 02:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12813</guid>
		<description>Good ideas here, and nice call on the &quot;red flag&quot;, Martin.  I can see translating &lt;i&gt;&quot;I want to kick him in the nuts&quot;&lt;/i&gt; into &lt;i&gt;&quot;I want an zero-cost mechanical advantage&quot;&lt;/i&gt;.

If we&#039;re playing D&amp;D, and a player tries that, I&#039;ll ask him to cite the rules on it, and where they&#039;re found.  I&#039;m not stopping combat so we can make up some game-breaking mechanic on the spot.  

If a player wants to do something just for the &quot;cool&quot; factor, it&#039;ll probably happen, and I may even make up some cute little mechanic for it. (&lt;i&gt;Take a penalty to your attack roll.  If you succeed, the target has to make a Fort save; the DC is 10 + the penalty you took.&lt;/i&gt;)  

However, I&#039;ll make sure that everyone knows this is a rare occurrence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good ideas here, and nice call on the &#8220;red flag&#8221;, Martin.  I can see translating <i>&#8220;I want to kick him in the nuts&#8221;</i> into <i>&#8220;I want an zero-cost mechanical advantage&#8221;</i>.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re playing D&amp;D, and a player tries that, I&#8217;ll ask him to cite the rules on it, and where they&#8217;re found.  I&#8217;m not stopping combat so we can make up some game-breaking mechanic on the spot.  </p>
<p>If a player wants to do something just for the &#8220;cool&#8221; factor, it&#8217;ll probably happen, and I may even make up some cute little mechanic for it. (<i>Take a penalty to your attack roll.  If you succeed, the target has to make a Fort save; the DC is 10 + the penalty you took.</i>)  </p>
<p>However, I&#8217;ll make sure that everyone knows this is a rare occurrence.</p>
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		<title>By: Wik</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12808</link>
		<dc:creator>Wik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 22:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12808</guid>
		<description>Never really had a problem with it, except for one player.

And he wasn&#039;t really a &quot;spotlight hog&quot;, although he did take up a bit more time than a few other players (but not so much as to really consider him greedy).  However, he didn&#039;t use called shots.

Often, he&#039;d just describe what he wanted his character to do, and we&#039;d use an attack roll to figure out how successful he was.  Each round, he would say something like &quot;my character will jump on the table, kick one hobgoblin in the face, and lunge at another with his blade&quot;.  And we&#039;d just make an attack roll (as if he were using two-weapon fighting), and take it from there.

Personally, I loved it, because it meant that he was paying attention.  And that&#039;s something that should be remembered - a player that wants to do things like a &quot;Called shot to the nuts&quot; and other stuff that could be &quot;cool&quot; is probably really into the game.  So, while it could be considered a &quot;red flag&quot; in many situations, the exact opposite can also be true - it could just mean that you&#039;re doing a killer job running the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never really had a problem with it, except for one player.</p>
<p>And he wasn&#8217;t really a &#8220;spotlight hog&#8221;, although he did take up a bit more time than a few other players (but not so much as to really consider him greedy).  However, he didn&#8217;t use called shots.</p>
<p>Often, he&#8217;d just describe what he wanted his character to do, and we&#8217;d use an attack roll to figure out how successful he was.  Each round, he would say something like &#8220;my character will jump on the table, kick one hobgoblin in the face, and lunge at another with his blade&#8221;.  And we&#8217;d just make an attack roll (as if he were using two-weapon fighting), and take it from there.</p>
<p>Personally, I loved it, because it meant that he was paying attention.  And that&#8217;s something that should be remembered &#8211; a player that wants to do things like a &#8220;Called shot to the nuts&#8221; and other stuff that could be &#8220;cool&#8221; is probably really into the game.  So, while it could be considered a &#8220;red flag&#8221; in many situations, the exact opposite can also be true &#8211; it could just mean that you&#8217;re doing a killer job running the game.</p>
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		<title>By: Spleen23</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/09/called-shot-to-the-nuts/comment-page-1#comment-12807</link>
		<dc:creator>Spleen23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 21:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=847#comment-12807</guid>
		<description>If the player is just trying to get a combat advantage by trying something not covered in the rules, more power to him, he should just keep in mind that he has also just opened a can of worms since every monster he goes up agianst now also has the option of makeing specific disableing attacks agaisnt him, and they will most likely use them only against him.

Then theres always the fact that most creatures and people who fight would come to expect a kick to the nads in a fight, thats why most suits of armor have some sort of hard protection over them, usally called a cod piece.

Spiked armor anyone?
 
I could also see just see a hobgoblin training sargent walking down a line of recruits kicking each one just to toughen then up and forceing them to built up a immunity.


General rule for me would be if it gets laugh, you should let it go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the player is just trying to get a combat advantage by trying something not covered in the rules, more power to him, he should just keep in mind that he has also just opened a can of worms since every monster he goes up agianst now also has the option of makeing specific disableing attacks agaisnt him, and they will most likely use them only against him.</p>
<p>Then theres always the fact that most creatures and people who fight would come to expect a kick to the nads in a fight, thats why most suits of armor have some sort of hard protection over them, usally called a cod piece.</p>
<p>Spiked armor anyone?</p>
<p>I could also see just see a hobgoblin training sargent walking down a line of recruits kicking each one just to toughen then up and forceing them to built up a immunity.</p>
<p>General rule for me would be if it gets laugh, you should let it go.</p>
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