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	<title>Comments on: How I Lost My Play-by-Post Virginity, Part 2</title>
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	<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/03/how-i-lost-my-play-by-post-virginity-part-2</link>
	<description>Game mastering advice, ideas &#038; resources &#8226; Dedicated to helping GMs</description>
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		<title>By: Play-By-Post DnD - Pros/Cons &#171; Geek News</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/03/how-i-lost-my-play-by-post-virginity-part-2/comment-page-1#comment-10236</link>
		<dc:creator>Play-By-Post DnD - Pros/Cons &#171; Geek News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 20:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=681#comment-10236</guid>
		<description>[...] In part 2 of the post he talks about what went well in the campaign, what went badly and the modifications he&#8217;d make in the future. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In part 2 of the post he talks about what went well in the campaign, what went badly and the modifications he&#8217;d make in the future. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/03/how-i-lost-my-play-by-post-virginity-part-2/comment-page-1#comment-10195</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=681#comment-10195</guid>
		<description>I used Dungeon Crafter for my maps, and found that even simple ones took a while to set up. Follow that with a PhotoShop layer that includes notes and PC names for every round of combat, and it starts to add up.

Pacing was definitely number one with a bullet, though.

Thanks for the feedback so far -- I&#039;m glad this two-parter is useful. Down the road, it might make a good choice for a PDF, or perhaps the basis of another Wiki-to-PDF Project.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used Dungeon Crafter for my maps, and found that even simple ones took a while to set up. Follow that with a PhotoShop layer that includes notes and PC names for every round of combat, and it starts to add up.</p>
<p>Pacing was definitely number one with a bullet, though.</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback so far &#8212; I&#8217;m glad this two-parter is useful. Down the road, it might make a good choice for a PDF, or perhaps the basis of another Wiki-to-PDF Project.</p>
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		<title>By: Kestral</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/03/how-i-lost-my-play-by-post-virginity-part-2/comment-page-1#comment-10182</link>
		<dc:creator>Kestral</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=681#comment-10182</guid>
		<description>Having seen PbPs from the player end, I think you hit on the primary concerns.

Martin, I think you really only had 1 problem. Guess what? You already hit on it. It&#039;s the problem of pacing.

Pacing, while important enough in real-life RPGs, is even more so in PbPs. Why? because if a combat drags on, it takes 4 hours instead of 3. However, in a PbP, it may take 2 months instead of 3 weeks. That&#039;s a lot of time to put &#039;talking&#039; on hold. Likewise, unless you see your players regularly, (and if you are, I&#039;m going to question why you are doing the PbP unless you know you are unable to get them all together at the same time reliably or unless the PbP&#039;s something light and airy... and combat&#039;s usually not something found in that type of PbP unless reduced to Rock-Paper-Scissors in terms of battle complexity) a long discussion that&#039;s away from the players&#039; interests will bore the hell out of your players, and you as GM won&#039;t probably realize it. Both will see post numbers drop off very rapidly, probably never to rise again, as people oddly won&#039;t discuss their issues with the pacing, because they&#039;ll generally assume that&#039;s the norm.

Furthermore, most groups make a common mistake: They assume what works for their real-life games will work in PbP with few modifications. D&amp;D, with it&#039;s complexities, is usually boring as hell in combat in a PbP, though it works better in real life. Risus, in real life can feel hollow to a gamist group, but that same group could be OK with it in a PbP, because it offers enough complexity for their situation. You could probably fix your modifier problem by having players simply list their totals, then occasionally spot-checking to keep them honest, but if you find a game that your group likes that largely minimizes modifier addition, such as one based on FUDGE, that is likely to work better. In fact, I&#039;d go so far as to say: any system which devotes the majority of it&#039;s pagecount to combat resolution that is treated differently from other conflict resolution is likely to have too much combat focus, unless the system largely expects the conflict resolution to be between players and not subject to direct mechanical system concerns. If the combat resolution is largely treated as the same as other RP resolution, then you can use combat more heavily.

I agree with your suggestion of a 24 hour max. in fact, if I run a PbP, that will normally be my limit, so I have no disagreement there. It appears to be at my limit for tolerance before the pacing gets too slow for my taste.

You seem to be putting forth a lot of effort into your maps. I think that&#039;s very commmendable. However, it also seems to be the root of your problem; as your map-making issue is essentially a pacing issue. If you were already skilled (I&#039;m assuming you&#039;re not) with your software of choice, it&#039;s possible you would be able to make the beautiful maps in a reasonable timeframe, but you&#039;re trying to make them faster than you can, at the moment, so try and change your expectations of results, and what their timeframes will be. This is a common problem people have in regards to creativity software. The masters of our artistic canon mostly studied their techniques a long time before producing their first known &#039;masterworks&#039;. The same goes with Photoshop. You can&#039;t master it in a day. Though people try. I spend days just playing with effects and various things, just so I can learn new things. At first, I spend way too much time doing something, then over time it becomes natural on it. But if I don&#039;t need complex, and can deal with quick n&#039; dirty, like making a black spot on a photo that I&#039;ll be putting online so I can delete personal information, I&#039;ll take MS Paint any day. Simpler interface, fewer options to get in the way, and it loads faster too. That said, I still say keep with the software. It can really help speed things up once you&#039;ve mastered it, or simply make things prettier. Good maps are always nice to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having seen PbPs from the player end, I think you hit on the primary concerns.</p>
<p>Martin, I think you really only had 1 problem. Guess what? You already hit on it. It&#8217;s the problem of pacing.</p>
<p>Pacing, while important enough in real-life RPGs, is even more so in PbPs. Why? because if a combat drags on, it takes 4 hours instead of 3. However, in a PbP, it may take 2 months instead of 3 weeks. That&#8217;s a lot of time to put &#8216;talking&#8217; on hold. Likewise, unless you see your players regularly, (and if you are, I&#8217;m going to question why you are doing the PbP unless you know you are unable to get them all together at the same time reliably or unless the PbP&#8217;s something light and airy&#8230; and combat&#8217;s usually not something found in that type of PbP unless reduced to Rock-Paper-Scissors in terms of battle complexity) a long discussion that&#8217;s away from the players&#8217; interests will bore the hell out of your players, and you as GM won&#8217;t probably realize it. Both will see post numbers drop off very rapidly, probably never to rise again, as people oddly won&#8217;t discuss their issues with the pacing, because they&#8217;ll generally assume that&#8217;s the norm.</p>
<p>Furthermore, most groups make a common mistake: They assume what works for their real-life games will work in PbP with few modifications. D&amp;D, with it&#8217;s complexities, is usually boring as hell in combat in a PbP, though it works better in real life. Risus, in real life can feel hollow to a gamist group, but that same group could be OK with it in a PbP, because it offers enough complexity for their situation. You could probably fix your modifier problem by having players simply list their totals, then occasionally spot-checking to keep them honest, but if you find a game that your group likes that largely minimizes modifier addition, such as one based on FUDGE, that is likely to work better. In fact, I&#8217;d go so far as to say: any system which devotes the majority of it&#8217;s pagecount to combat resolution that is treated differently from other conflict resolution is likely to have too much combat focus, unless the system largely expects the conflict resolution to be between players and not subject to direct mechanical system concerns. If the combat resolution is largely treated as the same as other RP resolution, then you can use combat more heavily.</p>
<p>I agree with your suggestion of a 24 hour max. in fact, if I run a PbP, that will normally be my limit, so I have no disagreement there. It appears to be at my limit for tolerance before the pacing gets too slow for my taste.</p>
<p>You seem to be putting forth a lot of effort into your maps. I think that&#8217;s very commmendable. However, it also seems to be the root of your problem; as your map-making issue is essentially a pacing issue. If you were already skilled (I&#8217;m assuming you&#8217;re not) with your software of choice, it&#8217;s possible you would be able to make the beautiful maps in a reasonable timeframe, but you&#8217;re trying to make them faster than you can, at the moment, so try and change your expectations of results, and what their timeframes will be. This is a common problem people have in regards to creativity software. The masters of our artistic canon mostly studied their techniques a long time before producing their first known &#8216;masterworks&#8217;. The same goes with Photoshop. You can&#8217;t master it in a day. Though people try. I spend days just playing with effects and various things, just so I can learn new things. At first, I spend way too much time doing something, then over time it becomes natural on it. But if I don&#8217;t need complex, and can deal with quick n&#8217; dirty, like making a black spot on a photo that I&#8217;ll be putting online so I can delete personal information, I&#8217;ll take MS Paint any day. Simpler interface, fewer options to get in the way, and it loads faster too. That said, I still say keep with the software. It can really help speed things up once you&#8217;ve mastered it, or simply make things prettier. Good maps are always nice to have.</p>
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		<title>By: ScottM</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/03/how-i-lost-my-play-by-post-virginity-part-2/comment-page-1#comment-10178</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=681#comment-10178</guid>
		<description>I think your &quot;what worked well&quot; and &quot;what didn&#039;t work&quot; are invalable for adapting to PbP play. Thanks for sharing them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your &#8220;what worked well&#8221; and &#8220;what didn&#8217;t work&#8221; are invalable for adapting to PbP play. Thanks for sharing them.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: william</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/03/how-i-lost-my-play-by-post-virginity-part-2/comment-page-1#comment-10167</link>
		<dc:creator>william</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2007 15:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=681#comment-10167</guid>
		<description>roleplaymarket is the current site I use for all my PbP games.   I have a bi-weekly real life (RL) game, which is the most any of us can handle with our crazy schedules but PbP gives me the opportunity to get our fix. :-)   
I do find combat tiresome because it is so slow but that is a limit inate to the medium.   Which is why I always make it a post a day or the GM will NPC the character for that round. 

What I enjoy best is GMing games on PbP that I am not as familiar with or comfortable with to run in RL.  I am able to run a game that moves slower and allows me to recheck the rules on combat, consult a chart or simply allow me some thinking time for a response, without slowing the game down.  It really causes me to learn the game mechanics better and more able to run it in RL.  I am doing that with a small group now, trying to get ready for a RL game with my group this summer.  

I love it! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>roleplaymarket is the current site I use for all my PbP games.   I have a bi-weekly real life (RL) game, which is the most any of us can handle with our crazy schedules but PbP gives me the opportunity to get our fix. <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I do find combat tiresome because it is so slow but that is a limit inate to the medium.   Which is why I always make it a post a day or the GM will NPC the character for that round. </p>
<p>What I enjoy best is GMing games on PbP that I am not as familiar with or comfortable with to run in RL.  I am able to run a game that moves slower and allows me to recheck the rules on combat, consult a chart or simply allow me some thinking time for a response, without slowing the game down.  It really causes me to learn the game mechanics better and more able to run it in RL.  I am doing that with a small group now, trying to get ready for a RL game with my group this summer.  </p>
<p>I love it! <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2007/03/how-i-lost-my-play-by-post-virginity-part-2/comment-page-1#comment-10162</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 19:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=681#comment-10162</guid>
		<description>I think the thing I like best about PbP is the roleplaying. I hate the combat. Which is ironic, because I&#039;m the stereotypical roll-player. IRL, I&#039;m the one sitting there bored while everyone else talks with the NPCs and figures out what we&#039;re supposed to do...

But I just can&#039;t get into combat in a PbP. On the other hand, the roleplaying is a lot easier and a lot more satisfying, because you can take your time not only to figure out a response, but also to figure out how to give that response.

I&#039;m in 2 PbPs right now (both on ENWorld). One is D&amp;D3.5, the other is Mutants &amp; Masterminds. The D&amp;D one wrapped up the first adventure relatively quickly, and when combat comes around now I literally tell them that I&#039;ll still be paying attention to the thread, but I won&#039;t be posting. I just stick my character on autofire (shoot crossbow/reload, try to flank and sneak attack if someone gets close).

The M&amp;M on the other hand is a bit more interesting in combat... I have to not use my primary offensive power, because it deals lethal damage (enchanted sword) and that&#039;s an IC no-no, so I&#039;ve had to come up with more creative actions in combat. Certainly something I could do in a real game, of course, but I don&#039;t tend to think that way when the heat&#039;s on. Here I have time to consider my options and figure &quot;Hey, it&#039;d be cool if I used my telekinesis to rip the gun out of the guard&#039;s hand and then bludgeon him into unconsciousness with it!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the thing I like best about PbP is the roleplaying. I hate the combat. Which is ironic, because I&#8217;m the stereotypical roll-player. IRL, I&#8217;m the one sitting there bored while everyone else talks with the NPCs and figures out what we&#8217;re supposed to do&#8230;</p>
<p>But I just can&#8217;t get into combat in a PbP. On the other hand, the roleplaying is a lot easier and a lot more satisfying, because you can take your time not only to figure out a response, but also to figure out how to give that response.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in 2 PbPs right now (both on ENWorld). One is D&amp;D3.5, the other is Mutants &amp; Masterminds. The D&amp;D one wrapped up the first adventure relatively quickly, and when combat comes around now I literally tell them that I&#8217;ll still be paying attention to the thread, but I won&#8217;t be posting. I just stick my character on autofire (shoot crossbow/reload, try to flank and sneak attack if someone gets close).</p>
<p>The M&amp;M on the other hand is a bit more interesting in combat&#8230; I have to not use my primary offensive power, because it deals lethal damage (enchanted sword) and that&#8217;s an IC no-no, so I&#8217;ve had to come up with more creative actions in combat. Certainly something I could do in a real game, of course, but I don&#8217;t tend to think that way when the heat&#8217;s on. Here I have time to consider my options and figure &#8220;Hey, it&#8217;d be cool if I used my telekinesis to rip the gun out of the guard&#8217;s hand and then bludgeon him into unconsciousness with it!&#8221;</p>
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