I’m like CJ… If you’re heading for a TPK, we’ve already discussed it. If you decided to move away, then that is what we do. But if it’s a conscious decision by the players to risk a TPK very, very intentionally, I won’t hesitate to kill them.

If they were thinking I was going to save them at the last minute anyway, or tweak things to be easier on them, then they probably should be disabused of that idea, or at least have asked for the TPK to be avoided. If they understood entirely that there was that risk, but went ahead, then the players are best served by going on with the encounter as planned.

Therefore, I mentioned taking the “page 17″ option because I didn’t figure discussion was necessary; the players already gave me their choices. If they originally wanted a no-fudge game with a lot of danger and originally went “go w/TPK” as their option, but decided to change their minds, they could mention it to me and I could adjust. However, if they know they’re getting into TPK territory, don’t ask, and continue ahead, why should I fudge? It’s not going to do anyone any good. I can start another campaign if the players wish; I’ve got enough ideas to keep games going for a while. I can restart the current campaign with new characters… it’s interesting to see how others might have viewed the original party’s actions. I can let someone else DM, if they wish. I could even have the characters get TPK’ed and get revived somehow, and let that become a plot point. “Saving the campaign” is not really an issue for me.

I can think of folks I’ve gamed with who would absolutely hate it, and folks who would love it. As a player, I’d be in the latter category — and there are plenty of situations where I’d opt to lose my PC in favor of a really cool flameout.

As for answering my own question, I default to page 67 (tweak the encounter, don’t fudge any rolls).

Indestructible figures are terrible points in any game. I’m reminded of the awful dungeon in the 3rd Edition GURPS Basic Book. A teenage thief steals an item and escapes. No rolls, no chance for the PCs to react, nothing. And they’re supposed to be hardened adventurers. But the entire plot of the adventure hinges on this. Bad adventure writing, just as putting an invincible dragon in the mountains is bad design on the part of the DM.

Depends on what you mean by “before hand”. I like to talk about such stuff before the campaign even starts, but not generally in the middle of the action–except the very minimum needed for clairification.

One of my favorite games I’ve played in (a three person Burning Wheel game) ended in a TPK. We were losing the fight, about to die and the GM stopped and said, “Ok, where do you want this to go?” The other player and me looked at each other and agreed. We wanted our characters to die, failing to succeed to pay off the crime lord. He pushed our bodies into the river. It was an awesome ending to a dark and gritty game.

–Victor

I think this is something you need to talk with your players long before the situation ever occurs. If you get to edge of a TPK and have to ask what to do, something is wrong.

It is my personal opinion that the decision to have the potential for a TPK is a decision for the entire group. For example, in my group, they have no desire for their entire party to die. This means two things. One is that I never send an encounter that is beyond their abilities. The second is that if I misjudge an encounter, I have a backup plan (such as capture or reinforcements).

On the other hand, if your group decides they want a lethal campaign, then you can’t pull punches. At the core of the issue, you are not giving your players what they wanted. If they want the risk of death, and walk into a death dealing situation, you have to give it to them.

I’ve always thought it a little odd and even a little unhealthy when a player gets ‘attached’ to a certain character. I know it’s bound to happen, but really, you should be psychologically and emotionally ready for your Hero to go out in a heroic battle to the death, and celebrate it. Then roll up another and keep playing.

When you get into that situation where you really HAVE made it clear that it’s to the death and yet you start fudging things so the characters don’t die, well, you’re not only cheapening the game beyond recognition, you’re actually admitting to yourself that the people you’re playing with have within them some kind of emotional or validational neediness to not dying in the game, and that, to me, is just so creepy, I don’t even want to be playing with that person/people in the first place.

So, my response is: Kill ‘em all.

I’m leaning towards page 17 (letting the TPK fall), but… doesn’t it seem that their strong and coherent response should be telling me something about my game?

(As a guess: they’re tired of being the 2 bit heroes– maybe it’s time for a superhero game. Or maybe they really want to play with the new supplements… or something.)

Usually, even if they survive the encounter, the campaign will be doomed unless you nerf the reward they expect. (If it’s the reward that motivated them.) This is very high stakes: put up or shut up– the campaign’s going to end (or change dramatically) even if the TPK is somehow averted.

Plus page 17 allows for the party to surprise you. Sometimes they do pull off the impossible!

That said, my warning would be a lot more blatant than the example given. The warning would probably come from multiple sources, be unambiguous, and be reinforced as they got closer (seeing bones, and the likes). I’d judge from the player reaction whether they were picking up on this or not. If I even suspected not, I’d drop OOC for a moment and ask a few questions.

But yeah, if they go forward after all that, then it’s their choice. My guys do that rarely, and they usually manage to pull a rabbit out of their hat–though sometimes their luck turns sour. It helps that I don’t have a situation like this very often. One case, in a D&D game, their contact said: “It’s a complete suicide mission, which you don’t have to accept. The emperor asked me to offer it to you. Here are a couple of raise dead scrolls. It’s probably not enough, but it’s all we could come up with at the moment.” (There was a war on.)

The most important ability for avoiding a TPK is not raw power, but information and the brains to use it.