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	<title>Comments on: Why is It So Hard to Find Players?</title>
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	<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players</link>
	<description>Game mastering advice, ideas &#038; resources &#8226; Dedicated to helping GMs</description>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3967</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3967</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all of your comments so far! It&#039;s interesting to hear how other GMs approach this problem -- if it&#039;s a problem for you at all. ;) (And thanks for the wedding congrats, Stephen W.!)

I&#039;ve played online once before, in a PbP game. There were some things I really liked about it, but the main thing that I missed was the social aspect -- it&#039;s there online, but it&#039;s nowhere near the same thing.

If that weren&#039;t my primary interest, I&#039;d probably play online more often. But my current group is great, and we&#039;re all more interested in adding a player or two than in trying other venues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all of your comments so far! It&#8217;s interesting to hear how other GMs approach this problem &#8212; if it&#8217;s a problem for you at all. <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  (And thanks for the wedding congrats, Stephen W.!)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve played online once before, in a PbP game. There were some things I really liked about it, but the main thing that I missed was the social aspect &#8212; it&#8217;s there online, but it&#8217;s nowhere near the same thing.</p>
<p>If that weren&#8217;t my primary interest, I&#8217;d probably play online more often. But my current group is great, and we&#8217;re all more interested in adding a player or two than in trying other venues.</p>
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		<title>By: Cha Ching the rich ninja</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3963</link>
		<dc:creator>Cha Ching the rich ninja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Sep 2006 01:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3963</guid>
		<description>Wow do I know what its like to be low on  players. Two years ago we had a drought of players as people moved away for work and there were only three of us left and things looked grim.We tried out a couple of people found on flgs notice board.......disaster!!! Anyway it seems fate interviened as after a six months of pain and no players. All of a sudden the heavens opened and through a series of lucky events we have more players than we know what to do with.A grand total of eight new players, as a result I am seriously thinking of starting a Rpg club. Funny ol world innit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow do I know what its like to be low on  players. Two years ago we had a drought of players as people moved away for work and there were only three of us left and things looked grim.We tried out a couple of people found on flgs notice board&#8230;&#8230;.disaster!!! Anyway it seems fate interviened as after a six months of pain and no players. All of a sudden the heavens opened and through a series of lucky events we have more players than we know what to do with.A grand total of eight new players, as a result I am seriously thinking of starting a Rpg club. Funny ol world innit.</p>
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		<title>By: Cineris</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3961</link>
		<dc:creator>Cineris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 22:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3961</guid>
		<description>After doing internet gaming via Open RPG the only reason why I bother with tabletop gaming is that it&#039;s an excuse to be with friends. I&#039;ve even pondered the idea of suggesting that we turn our group into an online group, simply because the quality of play is so much better online than in a tabletop game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After doing internet gaming via Open RPG the only reason why I bother with tabletop gaming is that it&#8217;s an excuse to be with friends. I&#8217;ve even pondered the idea of suggesting that we turn our group into an online group, simply because the quality of play is so much better online than in a tabletop game.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3960</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3960</guid>
		<description>Playing over the Internet is the cure, I think.

Admittedly, games are fine-tuned to table top play and aren&#039;t a very good match when playing over the Internet.  Also, the Internet software also needs improvement: both in basic quality and in integrating itself into the game.  I know why people say, &quot;It&#039;s not the same.&quot;

However, I&#039;m convinced that, if game designers playtested their rules over the Internet, in addition to the table top, they would discover and make a lot of small improvements that would really help make the rules work well both over the Internet and on the table top.

Playing over the Internet removes the whole geography issue: anybody can play with anybody.  Travel is reduced to nothing so you can play, even if you can&#039;t or don&#039;t want to leave the house.  It&#039;s clean: you can keep all your rulebooks and notes computerized.

While the disadvantages are obvious, there are often-overlooked advantages in-game: you can use a more narrative style and it&#039;s easier to separate the party.

I don&#039;t know if playing RPGs over the Internet will ever come of age.  I&#039;ve done it and I&#039;d do it again but I admit that it is still a niche and a substitute for a real game for most gamers.

If I ever become independently wealthy, perhaps I&#039;ll tackle the software issue (being that I&#039;m a software developer).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Playing over the Internet is the cure, I think.</p>
<p>Admittedly, games are fine-tuned to table top play and aren&#8217;t a very good match when playing over the Internet.  Also, the Internet software also needs improvement: both in basic quality and in integrating itself into the game.  I know why people say, &#8220;It&#8217;s not the same.&#8221;</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;m convinced that, if game designers playtested their rules over the Internet, in addition to the table top, they would discover and make a lot of small improvements that would really help make the rules work well both over the Internet and on the table top.</p>
<p>Playing over the Internet removes the whole geography issue: anybody can play with anybody.  Travel is reduced to nothing so you can play, even if you can&#8217;t or don&#8217;t want to leave the house.  It&#8217;s clean: you can keep all your rulebooks and notes computerized.</p>
<p>While the disadvantages are obvious, there are often-overlooked advantages in-game: you can use a more narrative style and it&#8217;s easier to separate the party.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if playing RPGs over the Internet will ever come of age.  I&#8217;ve done it and I&#8217;d do it again but I admit that it is still a niche and a substitute for a real game for most gamers.</p>
<p>If I ever become independently wealthy, perhaps I&#8217;ll tackle the software issue (being that I&#8217;m a software developer).</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3959</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2006 13:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3959</guid>
		<description>I almost never invite complete strangers into my games.  I tend to be very careful with player selection, which in my mind is the #1 factor to a successful campaign.  I look similarity of gaming style, desire for role-play, good social skills, and general fit with the rest of the group.  The only time I ever invited a person to play in my game that was neither a friend nor a friend of a friend was a woman I had met on LiveJournal.  She was funny, bright, and I had a feeling she would fit well with our all gay-male group.  Plus we wanted a bit more diversity!  I met with her for lunch and knew instantly she would fit well.  It worked beautifully.

I also do two things for every prospective player, and in this order:  I have them come play a guest NPC and I do a prelude.  The former is so that I get to see them mix with a group and they get to see how we play.  It&#039;s a lot less jarring than introducing a new PC and finding out 3 sessions later it&#039;s not a good fit. 

The best way I have found to get players in a new city is to join campaigns as a player, which I find via my blog.  I eventually click with some of the players and when I&#039;m ready to run a game I invite them to join.  After that it&#039;s just word of mouth advertising...pretty easy.  :)

My final technique is to MAKE players from non-gamer friends.  I run marathon sessions (12 hours) once per month.  This matches almost any busy adult&#039;s schedule, allowing even non-hard core gamers to play.  Many sci-fi/fantasy friends have been curious about RP.  They usually try the guest NPC approach and get hooked.  I once ran a campaign specifically designed for new players, just to help them learn about gaming and RP.  

Great questions and articles.  Thanks much!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I almost never invite complete strangers into my games.  I tend to be very careful with player selection, which in my mind is the #1 factor to a successful campaign.  I look similarity of gaming style, desire for role-play, good social skills, and general fit with the rest of the group.  The only time I ever invited a person to play in my game that was neither a friend nor a friend of a friend was a woman I had met on LiveJournal.  She was funny, bright, and I had a feeling she would fit well with our all gay-male group.  Plus we wanted a bit more diversity!  I met with her for lunch and knew instantly she would fit well.  It worked beautifully.</p>
<p>I also do two things for every prospective player, and in this order:  I have them come play a guest NPC and I do a prelude.  The former is so that I get to see them mix with a group and they get to see how we play.  It&#8217;s a lot less jarring than introducing a new PC and finding out 3 sessions later it&#8217;s not a good fit. </p>
<p>The best way I have found to get players in a new city is to join campaigns as a player, which I find via my blog.  I eventually click with some of the players and when I&#8217;m ready to run a game I invite them to join.  After that it&#8217;s just word of mouth advertising&#8230;pretty easy.  <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>My final technique is to MAKE players from non-gamer friends.  I run marathon sessions (12 hours) once per month.  This matches almost any busy adult&#8217;s schedule, allowing even non-hard core gamers to play.  Many sci-fi/fantasy friends have been curious about RP.  They usually try the guest NPC approach and get hooked.  I once ran a campaign specifically designed for new players, just to help them learn about gaming and RP.  </p>
<p>Great questions and articles.  Thanks much!</p>
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		<title>By: Ilwan</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3956</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilwan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 22:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3956</guid>
		<description>We got the problem of being to many in our group. I find an ideal group consist of 3-4 players. Currently we are five and that is too much in my opinion, especially cuz everyone doesnt hesistate to discuss....alot ;)

My problem is that the guys are all good friends, not only through gaming, and I wouldnt tell any of them to leave. Some of them are more fanatic roleplayers, some are casual and into it socially.

I guess it is a luxury problem really, but sessions can be really dissapointing compared to the intensity of 3 player games.

In general I guess it would be tough finding new gamers. I can only speak for online games. But my experience there is dissapointing, cuz 
of the anonymity the web provides. Its easier to come and go, miss sessions or simply to dissapear forever. It is sometimes hard to invest time into getting strangers to know and care for them, only to see them dissapear from one day to another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We got the problem of being to many in our group. I find an ideal group consist of 3-4 players. Currently we are five and that is too much in my opinion, especially cuz everyone doesnt hesistate to discuss&#8230;.alot <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>My problem is that the guys are all good friends, not only through gaming, and I wouldnt tell any of them to leave. Some of them are more fanatic roleplayers, some are casual and into it socially.</p>
<p>I guess it is a luxury problem really, but sessions can be really dissapointing compared to the intensity of 3 player games.</p>
<p>In general I guess it would be tough finding new gamers. I can only speak for online games. But my experience there is dissapointing, cuz<br />
of the anonymity the web provides. Its easier to come and go, miss sessions or simply to dissapear forever. It is sometimes hard to invest time into getting strangers to know and care for them, only to see them dissapear from one day to another.</p>
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		<title>By: Buzz</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3955</link>
		<dc:creator>Buzz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 20:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3955</guid>
		<description>Hmm...

I&#039;m in three groups right now, two of which were the result of posting my availability on some forums, and the third of which grew out of one of the first two. I&#039;ve been with them all for closing in on four years now.

I also organize ENWorld Chicago Gameday, and end up running events for it each time. I&#039;ve had more than a few people ask me to join their group of join my groups as a result.

I guess I&#039;ve just been lucky. There are 16 people total across my groups, and I would say that only one of them is someone I don&#039;t like that much.

Going to local cons/gamedays is a must. You get to sort of &quot;try out&quot; people in a real gaming environment, as well as let others do the same with yourself. Add to that the myriad gamer sites, and I think you can do pretty well. Just be very up-front about your tastes and availability, and don&#039;t waste your time with fools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in three groups right now, two of which were the result of posting my availability on some forums, and the third of which grew out of one of the first two. I&#8217;ve been with them all for closing in on four years now.</p>
<p>I also organize ENWorld Chicago Gameday, and end up running events for it each time. I&#8217;ve had more than a few people ask me to join their group of join my groups as a result.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;ve just been lucky. There are 16 people total across my groups, and I would say that only one of them is someone I don&#8217;t like that much.</p>
<p>Going to local cons/gamedays is a must. You get to sort of &#8220;try out&#8221; people in a real gaming environment, as well as let others do the same with yourself. Add to that the myriad gamer sites, and I think you can do pretty well. Just be very up-front about your tastes and availability, and don&#8217;t waste your time with fools.</p>
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		<title>By: Carolina aka Troy Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3954</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolina aka Troy Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 18:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3954</guid>
		<description>Instead of just posting at the game store, try running a game there, posting an announcement with an open invitation to all-comers...

That way, interested persons get a chance at seeing you, meeting you, experiencing your gaming style ...

While you can answer the most nagging question: Do I want to invite this person into my home?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of just posting at the game store, try running a game there, posting an announcement with an open invitation to all-comers&#8230;</p>
<p>That way, interested persons get a chance at seeing you, meeting you, experiencing your gaming style &#8230;</p>
<p>While you can answer the most nagging question: Do I want to invite this person into my home?</p>
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		<title>By: drow</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3953</link>
		<dc:creator>drow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3953</guid>
		<description>my life has been far too easy i guess.  i grew up in boulder co, and had a lot of friends who gamed, who i&#039;d known since middle school to high school.

i moved to minneapolis mn about ten years ago, and formed a new group right away based on a post to my isp&#039;s local usenet newsgroup.  we&#039;ve fluctuated a lot since then, picking up friends, co-workers, and two spouses, but its been pretty steady.

if my current group fell apart for whatever reason, i know of at least half a dozen other friends and acquaintances who game intermittently or have gamed in the past, and could easily pull together another group or two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my life has been far too easy i guess.  i grew up in boulder co, and had a lot of friends who gamed, who i&#8217;d known since middle school to high school.</p>
<p>i moved to minneapolis mn about ten years ago, and formed a new group right away based on a post to my isp&#8217;s local usenet newsgroup.  we&#8217;ve fluctuated a lot since then, picking up friends, co-workers, and two spouses, but its been pretty steady.</p>
<p>if my current group fell apart for whatever reason, i know of at least half a dozen other friends and acquaintances who game intermittently or have gamed in the past, and could easily pull together another group or two.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen W.</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3952</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3952</guid>
		<description>First off, congrats on your marriage-to-be.  There are few things in life as enjoyable as gaming, and having a loving spouse is one of them.  Now, having a spouse that likes to play as much as you do, that&#039;d be just plain blissful...

But I digress.  Yeah, I&#039;d say this is a big problem for most groups.  I&#039;ve always played with close friends who were either already into it or open-minded enough to give it a try.  As I&#039;ve moved over the past few years, I&#039;ve always lost touch with the previous group and gone on to find a new one.  In most cases, they&#039;re friends of friends, as you describe, although I&#039;ve had a few instances of arranged meetups.

I did have some limited success with posting at a local gaming store, although the results of that were slow-going (I think I got my first call after two or three months).  I also tried a few online services with no success.  It might have had something to do with the location I was in, or it might be that people can more easily ignore an email or forum post than a phone call.

At any rate, I&#039;m a firm believer that personal acquaintances make the best players.  Tabletop RPGs are, after all, a social activity.  Arranging a game with strangers can then be likened to going on a blind date.  Who would you rather go on a date with, a friend or a stranger?  I think the distinction is clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, congrats on your marriage-to-be.  There are few things in life as enjoyable as gaming, and having a loving spouse is one of them.  Now, having a spouse that likes to play as much as you do, that&#8217;d be just plain blissful&#8230;</p>
<p>But I digress.  Yeah, I&#8217;d say this is a big problem for most groups.  I&#8217;ve always played with close friends who were either already into it or open-minded enough to give it a try.  As I&#8217;ve moved over the past few years, I&#8217;ve always lost touch with the previous group and gone on to find a new one.  In most cases, they&#8217;re friends of friends, as you describe, although I&#8217;ve had a few instances of arranged meetups.</p>
<p>I did have some limited success with posting at a local gaming store, although the results of that were slow-going (I think I got my first call after two or three months).  I also tried a few online services with no success.  It might have had something to do with the location I was in, or it might be that people can more easily ignore an email or forum post than a phone call.</p>
<p>At any rate, I&#8217;m a firm believer that personal acquaintances make the best players.  Tabletop RPGs are, after all, a social activity.  Arranging a game with strangers can then be likened to going on a blind date.  Who would you rather go on a date with, a friend or a stranger?  I think the distinction is clear.</p>
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		<title>By: ScottM</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3951</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3951</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s ironic that you&#039;re bringing this up now.  Just this week I sent out messages to people from all the local groups (the local yahoo groups: RPGA Library, RPG Fresno, Fresno RPG, posted on Story Games and our local bulletin board CVGamers-- I even raided the ancient Access Denied&#039;s Fresno listings, and mailed Findplay people).  I posted an offer to hand moderate an RPG announcement list for local games, hoping to use the one large pool of players as a recruiting tool to ease RPG group formation.  So far, there&#039;s been a trickle of responses, but it&#039;s early yet.

Here&#039;s a link to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.techfix.net//cvgamers/nfphpbb/viewtopic.php?t=443&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; my post&lt;/a&gt; on CVGamers.  The other groups were close variations.

I&#039;ve been lucky, personally, in finding game groups.  It has mostly been friend of a friend networking; I met a few people while I was in RenFaire, was introduced to Will (who already had a group) by my roommate Chris, had friends bring interested co-workers (which got us Wes) and co-workers bring their cousins (which brought us Ben).  Ben brought a couple of gamers who didn&#039;t work out; Chris brought a co-worker Dave, who brought his friend Dusty.  (Many of these people have since moved.)

Other methods work too: if any gamestore in town has an open gaming night, show up once, even if they&#039;re only playing minis and CCGs.  There&#039;s lots of crossover.  A different local gamestore campaign wasn&#039;t exactly my thing, it was fun enough during a lull between games and would have been a source of players if I&#039;d been recruiting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s ironic that you&#8217;re bringing this up now.  Just this week I sent out messages to people from all the local groups (the local yahoo groups: RPGA Library, RPG Fresno, Fresno RPG, posted on Story Games and our local bulletin board CVGamers&#8211; I even raided the ancient Access Denied&#8217;s Fresno listings, and mailed Findplay people).  I posted an offer to hand moderate an RPG announcement list for local games, hoping to use the one large pool of players as a recruiting tool to ease RPG group formation.  So far, there&#8217;s been a trickle of responses, but it&#8217;s early yet.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link to <a href="http://www.techfix.net//cvgamers/nfphpbb/viewtopic.php?t=443" rel="nofollow"> my post</a> on CVGamers.  The other groups were close variations.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been lucky, personally, in finding game groups.  It has mostly been friend of a friend networking; I met a few people while I was in RenFaire, was introduced to Will (who already had a group) by my roommate Chris, had friends bring interested co-workers (which got us Wes) and co-workers bring their cousins (which brought us Ben).  Ben brought a couple of gamers who didn&#8217;t work out; Chris brought a co-worker Dave, who brought his friend Dusty.  (Many of these people have since moved.)</p>
<p>Other methods work too: if any gamestore in town has an open gaming night, show up once, even if they&#8217;re only playing minis and CCGs.  There&#8217;s lots of crossover.  A different local gamestore campaign wasn&#8217;t exactly my thing, it was fun enough during a lull between games and would have been a source of players if I&#8217;d been recruiting.</p>
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		<title>By: Abulia</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/09/why-is-it-so-hard-to-find-players/comment-page-1#comment-3950</link>
		<dc:creator>Abulia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Sep 2006 15:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=466#comment-3950</guid>
		<description>Nice to see that we both got &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.donmappin.com/?p=196&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blog posts&lt;/a&gt; out of this. :)

Copycat. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to see that we both got <a href="http://www.donmappin.com/?p=196" rel="nofollow">blog posts</a> out of this. <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Copycat. <img src='http://www.treasuretables.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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