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	<title>Comments on: Making Natural Caverns</title>
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	<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/03/making-natural-caverns</link>
	<description>Game mastering advice, ideas &#038; resources &#8226; Dedicated to helping GMs</description>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/03/making-natural-caverns/comment-page-1#comment-1644</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2006 02:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=244#comment-1644</guid>
		<description>(drow) &lt;i&gt;i’m a bit confused, since it seems like the random dungeon is, basically, entirely gratuitous, and you might as well start with a blank piece of graph paper. which is what i usually do. or is there a hidden dungeon to cavern correlation i’m missing?&lt;/i&gt;

With this method, you create the cavern by obscuring sections of the original random dungeon map.

Sure, you could just draw the cavern -- but if you don&#039;t have much time, then having the dungeon map could be pretty handy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(drow) <i>i’m a bit confused, since it seems like the random dungeon is, basically, entirely gratuitous, and you might as well start with a blank piece of graph paper. which is what i usually do. or is there a hidden dungeon to cavern correlation i’m missing?</i></p>
<p>With this method, you create the cavern by obscuring sections of the original random dungeon map.</p>
<p>Sure, you could just draw the cavern &#8212; but if you don&#8217;t have much time, then having the dungeon map could be pretty handy.</p>
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		<title>By: drow</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/03/making-natural-caverns/comment-page-1#comment-1641</link>
		<dc:creator>drow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 06:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=244#comment-1641</guid>
		<description>i&#039;m a bit confused, since it seems like the random dungeon is, basically, entirely gratuitous, and you might as well start with a blank piece of graph paper.  which is what i usually do.  or is there a hidden dungeon to cavern correlation i&#039;m missing?

(and, in a shameless act of self-promotion, i like my random dungeon generator better than jamis buck&#039;s.  =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m a bit confused, since it seems like the random dungeon is, basically, entirely gratuitous, and you might as well start with a blank piece of graph paper.  which is what i usually do.  or is there a hidden dungeon to cavern correlation i&#8217;m missing?</p>
<p>(and, in a shameless act of self-promotion, i like my random dungeon generator better than jamis buck&#8217;s.  =)</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/03/making-natural-caverns/comment-page-1#comment-1640</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 05:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=244#comment-1640</guid>
		<description>Yes, I&#039;m quite impressed by this.  I think I&#039;m definitely going to try this out.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;m quite impressed by this.  I think I&#8217;m definitely going to try this out.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/03/making-natural-caverns/comment-page-1#comment-1635</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=244#comment-1635</guid>
		<description>(Cassandra) &lt;i&gt;One thing it doesn’t show is any vertical change, which is almost always present in caverns. Even areas that might be considered all on one “level” often have slopes instead of flat paths, or short drops from one area to the next. That ought to be easy to add to a map like this, and would give it a little more realism in play.&lt;/i&gt;

Good point! It would be pretty easy to whip up a quick random table for depths and slopes, too -- if there isn&#039;t one out there already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Cassandra) <i>One thing it doesn’t show is any vertical change, which is almost always present in caverns. Even areas that might be considered all on one “level” often have slopes instead of flat paths, or short drops from one area to the next. That ought to be easy to add to a map like this, and would give it a little more realism in play.</i></p>
<p>Good point! It would be pretty easy to whip up a quick random table for depths and slopes, too &#8212; if there isn&#8217;t one out there already.</p>
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		<title>By: Cassandra</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/03/making-natural-caverns/comment-page-1#comment-1626</link>
		<dc:creator>Cassandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 19:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=244#comment-1626</guid>
		<description>Before computers came into my life, I used to use the random dungeon generator in the back of the 1st Ed. DMG, and just draw the lines squiggly instead of straight, and not all in even increments of 10 feet. This method looks even easier to use.

One thing it doesn&#039;t show is any vertical change, which is almost always present in caverns. Even areas that might be considered all on one &quot;level&quot; often have slopes instead of flat paths, or short drops from one area to the next. That ought to be easy to add to a map like this, and would give it a little more realism in play.

For people who hate preparation, Tabletop Adventures wrote a product just for natural caverns. &quot;Bits of Darkness: Caverns&quot; has 100+ descriptions of cave formations, rocky slopes, etc. In the areas between encounters, your party can discover some delicate rock form or underground pool. It keeps their interest and makes them realize there&#039;s more down there than just dark. You can go here: http://www.tabletopadventures.com/Products/Caverns/caverns.html to grab some examples and a free demo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before computers came into my life, I used to use the random dungeon generator in the back of the 1st Ed. DMG, and just draw the lines squiggly instead of straight, and not all in even increments of 10 feet. This method looks even easier to use.</p>
<p>One thing it doesn&#8217;t show is any vertical change, which is almost always present in caverns. Even areas that might be considered all on one &#8220;level&#8221; often have slopes instead of flat paths, or short drops from one area to the next. That ought to be easy to add to a map like this, and would give it a little more realism in play.</p>
<p>For people who hate preparation, Tabletop Adventures wrote a product just for natural caverns. &#8220;Bits of Darkness: Caverns&#8221; has 100+ descriptions of cave formations, rocky slopes, etc. In the areas between encounters, your party can discover some delicate rock form or underground pool. It keeps their interest and makes them realize there&#8217;s more down there than just dark. You can go here: <a href="http://www.tabletopadventures.com/Products/Caverns/caverns.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.tabletopadventures.com/Products/Caverns/caverns.html</a> to grab some examples and a free demo.</p>
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		<title>By: David Younce</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/03/making-natural-caverns/comment-page-1#comment-1624</link>
		<dc:creator>David Younce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=244#comment-1624</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad that tip helped you - it&#039;s cool to see it in action here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad that tip helped you &#8211; it&#8217;s cool to see it in action here!</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/03/making-natural-caverns/comment-page-1#comment-1621</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 21:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=244#comment-1621</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Rick and Martin, for liking it!  I hope that a lot of people take something away from this technique.  I really enjoy its simplicity as well - no sense making anything more complicated than it needs to be!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Rick and Martin, for liking it!  I hope that a lot of people take something away from this technique.  I really enjoy its simplicity as well &#8211; no sense making anything more complicated than it needs to be!</p>
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		<title>By: Rick the Wonder Algae</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/03/making-natural-caverns/comment-page-1#comment-1618</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick the Wonder Algae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 17:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=244#comment-1618</guid>
		<description>The random dungeon creator was included on a CD in one of the dragon magazines when the introduced the new format.

A few issues later they covered a very neat but very complex system for something similar to the relationship lines.

Like I said, I hadn&#039;t seen these two tools put together quite like this and the streamlining he puts into it to make them quick and easy to use really makes it useful instead of cumbersome.

The random dungeon generator is nice but unless your game is 1st eddition flavor, kick in a door, fight random moster, move on, it&#039;s largely useless without some work.  (I would have liked it better if they had used a system similar to that used in TSRs random dungeon boxed set in which your end dungeon contained a hierarchy of monsters rather than a completely random set.)   The article on relationships (and responsiveness) within a dungeon was really fantastic but would add hours to dungeon prep, not streamline it.  (though that&#039;s not the article he sites, just a similarly themed one)

This system, by virtue of it&#039;s very simplicity, is fast and useable but still produces great results. For someone that hates prep as much as I do, that makes it a winner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The random dungeon creator was included on a CD in one of the dragon magazines when the introduced the new format.</p>
<p>A few issues later they covered a very neat but very complex system for something similar to the relationship lines.</p>
<p>Like I said, I hadn&#8217;t seen these two tools put together quite like this and the streamlining he puts into it to make them quick and easy to use really makes it useful instead of cumbersome.</p>
<p>The random dungeon generator is nice but unless your game is 1st eddition flavor, kick in a door, fight random moster, move on, it&#8217;s largely useless without some work.  (I would have liked it better if they had used a system similar to that used in TSRs random dungeon boxed set in which your end dungeon contained a hierarchy of monsters rather than a completely random set.)   The article on relationships (and responsiveness) within a dungeon was really fantastic but would add hours to dungeon prep, not streamline it.  (though that&#8217;s not the article he sites, just a similarly themed one)</p>
<p>This system, by virtue of it&#8217;s very simplicity, is fast and useable but still produces great results. For someone that hates prep as much as I do, that makes it a winner.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/03/making-natural-caverns/comment-page-1#comment-1611</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=244#comment-1611</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d actually never seen this approach before, and I loved the step-by-step images Patrick provided with it. Glad you enjoyed it, Rick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d actually never seen this approach before, and I loved the step-by-step images Patrick provided with it. Glad you enjoyed it, Rick.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick the Wonder Algae</title>
		<link>http://www.treasuretables.org/2006/03/making-natural-caverns/comment-page-1#comment-1609</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick the Wonder Algae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.treasuretables.org/?p=244#comment-1609</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve seen all of this before, but never put together in such a nice neat quick and easy package.  I&#039;ll be sure to refer back here next time I need to make a cavern complex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen all of this before, but never put together in such a nice neat quick and easy package.  I&#8217;ll be sure to refer back here next time I need to make a cavern complex.</p>
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